1. Standard memberDasa
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    14 Oct '11 16:49
    In the Padmapuranam the Absolute Truth is compared with the Fire. As the Fire illuminates by diffusion of its rays, although it is situated in one place, so also the Absolute Truth, although situated far beyond the reach of our imperfect vision, is omnipresent in all directions by distribution of His varied energies. These energies or potentialities of the Absolute Truth, are innumerable and immeasurable in quantity and quality but primarily all of them can be grouped into three principal divisions under the following headings, viz.,

    (1) Internal Potency or "Chit Potency"
    (2) Marginal Potency or "Tatastha Potency"
    (3) External Potency or "Maya Potency"

    The Absolute Truth is omnipresent everywhere and anywhere represented by all these potencies by a transcendental process which is inconceivable by any mental speculation. As the fire expands its heat as its natural potentiality, so also the Absolute Truth, call Him the Impersonal "Brahman", Localised Aspect of Godhead "Paramatman" or the Personality of Godhead "Bhagwan"-in all such manifestations, He manifests His different potentialities in respect of creation, destruction and maintenance of the universe or the entities within the universe. These are quite natural to Him as the heat is to the fire.

    The Material Nature as we try to explain by our imperfect mental speculation, is only the External Nature or External Potency of the Absolute Truth whereas the living entities represented by different species of Spirit embodied, which are eighty four lacs of varieties-are but innumerable manifestations of His Marginal Potency as separate individual portions. The actions of the Internal Potency technically called the Chit potency, is almost similar to the activities of the External Potency technically known as "Maya" or illusion.

    The difference between "Chit" potency and the "Maya Potency" is of quality and quantity. The manifestations of the "Maya" potency by creation of the innumerable universes like one as we can see presently, is said to be one-fourth quantity (portion) of the whole creation. The creation of the "Chit" potency is three-fourth of the whole creation and is the Kingdom of God or technically called "Baikuntha". Herein lies the difference in quantity of "Maya" and "Chit" Potencies. The other difference is one of the quality namely the creation of the "Chit" potency is non-destructible and eternal while the creation of the Maya Potency is destructible and temporary technically called the material Nature.(1) The former is real while the latter is unreal or shadow.

    The one is light(2) while the latter is darkness. In the darkness one cannot find out what he wants. And in the material nature also one cannot find what he searches out throughout the whole span of his life. From the darkness one however can make out a guess for the light and from the shadow one can make out an idea of the origin. The real is technically known as Transcendence or Noumenon as opposed to the shadow technically called the mundane or phenomenon. But all the same we must not misunderstand them as one and the same as sometimes it is wrongly interpreted by imperfect speculation. Thus lies the qualitative difference between the "Chit" and the "Maya" potencies.

    The creations of the marginal potency technically called the "Tatastha" Potency-are the numberless individual living souls trying to lord it over the Material Potency (Maya). The difference between the "Chit" Potency and the "Tatastha" potency is one of quantity only but almost not of quality as opposed to the difference with the "Maya" potency both in quality and in quantity. In other words quantitatively there is much difference between the "Chit" and the "Tatastha" potencies but qualitatively there is almost no difference.(3) Therefore "Tatastha" potency is in all respects superior to the "Maya" potency in relation with the "Chit" Potency. We can see therefore a perpetual endeavour on the part of the living souls to lord it over the material nature or "Maya".(4)

    The living entities therefore being one with the Transcendence in quality, are also indestructible and eternal. This fact is elaborately corroborated in the Geeta as follows (Bg. 11) "The soul or the spirit of the living entity is never born nor does it ever die. It was never created in the past nor it is created at present neither it shall be created in the future.(5) That is the soul is transcendental to physical time, represented by Past, Present and the Future. The spirit is therefore unborn, indestructible, eternal, the oldest but always fresh, it is never put to annihilation even after the destruction of the body and the mind."

    "Thus one who knows the soul to be non-destructible and eternal-can he ever kill any other soul or does he order to kill others."

    "Transmigration of the soul from one body to the other after the destruction of the body, is just like one's changing an old garment for a new one. The non-destructible soul simply changes its material body but is never killed or put to death as we generally misunderstand."

    "No weapon can penetrate the soul, no fire can burn it, no water can moisten it and no air can dry it up." "The soul is impenetrable, incombustible, incapable of being moistened or dried up. It is permanent, constant, immovable and eternal."

    "The soul is declared to be incomprehensible, invisible, immeasurable and knowing the soul to be so, one has nothing to lament for, Oh Mighty armed."

    The living entity is therefore permanently related with the "Chit" potency as opposed to its temporary relation with the material nature or the "Maya" potency. His relation with the material nature is casual and the cause for such accidental relation is the forgetfulness of his real nature. The living entities are just like sparks of the fire (the fire being compared with The Absolute Truth) or the molecules of the rays of the Sun (the Sun being compared with The Absolute Truth). Qualitatively there is no difference between the fire and its sparks or the Sun and its molecules of rays but quantitatively there is a gulf of difference between them.

    The living entity therefore when he forgets his real nature as one with the "Chit" potency and identifies himself as one of the creations of the material nature or the "Maya" potency by his tendency of forgetfulness-is as a matter of consequence, put into the various material afflictions represented by the threefold miseries of material existence. These threefold miseries are:-

    (a) Misery pertaining to the material body and the mind such as perceptions of cold and heat and conceptions of distress and happiness.
    (b) Misery pertaining to the awards of other living entities such as an attack by the enemies, bites by the animals etc.
    (c) Misery pertaining to the controlling powers of gods such as occurrences of earthquakes, famines, wars, pestilence etc.

    A temporary relievement from one of the above threefold miseries is known to us as happiness (?). Negation of distresses is undoubtedly called happiness but all happinesses in the material nature, are adjusted by the "Maya" potency and as such all such happinesses are conditional as much as they again await the onslaught of another distress. In the material nature, all so-called happinesses or the so-called distresses are of temporary nature. As such temporary happinesses cannot satisfy the living entity, the latter's nature being one with the "Chit" potency i.e., non-destructible and permanent.
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    14 Oct '11 17:223 edits
    Another artistic evocation of the center is the "wheel of fortune" that can be found on so many of the medieval cathedrals. At the top of the wheel is a portrait of a king, and over his head is the inscription "regno" (I am reigning). Clockwise on the wheel, to the king's left, is a figure shown plummeting down, and next to him is the motto "regnavi" (I have reigned). At the bottom is a pauper An impoverished person who is supported at public expense; an indigent litigant who is permitted to sue or defend without paying costs; an impoverished criminal defendant who has a right to receive legal services without charge.

    But at the center of the wheel, at that unchanging point where the spokes come together, there is a depiction of Christ.

    The point is simple and powerful: This wheel of fortune turns and turns throughout one's life, moving one from power and privilege to weakness and penury

    What the symbol of the wheel tells us is this: Don't live your life on the rim of the circle, but rather at the center--and you will find holiness.


    http://www.thefreelibrary.com/You're+holier+than+you+know%3a+3+paths+of+holiness.-a021197582



    This metaphor seems to be similar to what you're saying -- the "Maya" seems similar to the ever-changing rim of the wheel -- the "Chit" seems similar to the unchanging Christ at the center of the wheel.
  3. Standard memberDasa
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    14 Oct '11 18:52
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    [i]Another artistic evocation of the center is the "wheel of fortune" that can be found on so many of the medieval cathedrals. At the top of the wheel is a portrait of a king, and over his head is the inscription "regno" (I am reigning). Clockwise on the wheel, to the king's left, is a figure shown plummeting down, and next to him is the motto "regnavi" ( ...[text shortened]... -- the "Chit" seems similar to the unchanging Christ at the center of the wheel.
    Yes ...exactly.
  4. Standard memberrvsakhadeo
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    15 Oct '11 08:47
    Originally posted by Melanerpes
    [i]Another artistic evocation of the center is the "wheel of fortune" that can be found on so many of the medieval cathedrals. At the top of the wheel is a portrait of a king, and over his head is the inscription "regno" (I am reigning). Clockwise on the wheel, to the king's left, is a figure shown plummeting down, and next to him is the motto "regnavi" ( ...[text shortened]... -- the "Chit" seems similar to the unchanging Christ at the center of the wheel.
    Lord Krsna has stated in so many words in the Bhagavat Geeta that he makes all beings go round the wheel of Maya.
  5. Wat?
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    15 Oct '11 08:54
    Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
    Lord Krsna has stated in so many words in the Bhagavat Geeta that he makes all beings go round the wheel of Maya.
    He makes them do so? So there is no free will in all of this? I'm bemused... 🙄
  6. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    15 Oct '11 09:03
    Originally posted by mikelom
    He makes them do so? So there is no free will in all of this? I'm bemused... 🙄
    I dont think he was being literal,(ie. that "Lord Krsna" is actually like a person handing out orders.), perhaps "Lord Krsna" here is more of a mtephor, as the word "god" can be used in many different ways.

    I dunno, I get the feeling we should challenge any "authority" that claims to have put us somewhere too ...
  7. Standard memberrvsakhadeo
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    15 Oct '11 09:17
    Originally posted by mikelom
    He makes them do so? So there is no free will in all of this? I'm bemused... 🙄
    No,no. You missed out the significance of the word Maya.Detachment of oneself from the worldly objects of sensual pleasure is all that is required to get started on the path of spiritual freedom. It is said that the human plight in this Mayic i.e. dynamic and changing and to that extent unreal world is similar to a bird sitting on a branch of a tree and looking down into the water pool below, at its reflection and crying out " Oh ! I am drowned,please save me ! " or like a person carrying on his head his luggage while sitting in a vehicle carrying him and crying out about his burden. You can certainly let go of all of your burdens which are illusory. God has granted you that will. God has also granted you the freedom to stay attached with your bonds. Upto you.
  8. Wat?
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    15 Oct '11 09:34
    Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
    No,no. You missed out the significance of the word Maya.Detachment of oneself from the worldly objects of sensual pleasure is all that is required to get started on the path of spiritual freedom. It is said that the human plight in this Mayic i.e. dynamic and changing and to that extent unreal world is similar to a bird sitting on a branch of a tree and ...[text shortened]... ou that will. God has also granted you the freedom to stay attached with your bonds. Upto you.
    Maya has a completely different meaning in Buddhism, as you well know.

    So is there one God for you, or three?

    -m.
  9. Standard memberrvsakhadeo
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    15 Oct '11 10:19
    Originally posted by mikelom
    Maya has a completely different meaning in Buddhism, as you well know.

    So is there one God for you, or three?

    -m.
    Maya means delusion. The Manifest Reality or this perceived Universe is Mayic or delusional. You must have noted the similarity in the word Mayic and the word magic. Maya is not God. Maya is just the way the perceived Universe appears. Dynamic, changing, to that extent unreal. I feel/ believe that God is one. But to state God is one or two or three or infinite, is to exhibit ignorance and arrogance. God is beyond human speech and mind. I am unable to comment on Buddhist meaning of Maya as my knowledge of Buddhism is sketchy.
  10. Wat?
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    15 Oct '11 10:38
    Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
    Maya means delusion. The Manifest Reality or this perceived Universe is Mayic or delusional. You must have noted the similarity in the word Mayic and the word magic. Maya is not God. Maya is just the way the perceived Universe appears. Dynamic, changing, to that extent unreal. I feel/ believe that God is one. But to state God is one or two or three or inf ...[text shortened]... mind. I am unable to comment on Buddhist meaning of Maya as my knowledge of Buddhism is sketchy.
    Maya means delusion.

    Well it would, wouldn't it? As Buddha was excluded from life in India, once he had discovered philosophy, and the needs of helping people and theselves.

    He was attacked for his belief of helping people, and the God/s would not.

    Maya was his mother!!!

    It adds up now, that even the Indian various forms of religion re-wrote their books to discredit Buddha, and all that followed.

    Poor show! And you didn't know Buddha's mother was Maya?

    Ahum.....I think you did! 🙁

    -m.
  11. Standard memberrvsakhadeo
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    15 Oct '11 11:20
    Originally posted by mikelom
    Maya means delusion.

    Well it would, wouldn't it? As Buddha was excluded from life in India, once he had discovered philosophy, and the needs of helping people and theselves.

    He was attacked for his belief of helping people, and the God/s would not.

    Maya was his mother!!!

    It adds up now, that even the Indian various forms of religion re-wrote thei ...[text shortened]... or show! And you didn't know Buddha's mother was Maya?

    Ahum.....I think you did! 🙁

    -m.
    Maya also means wealth. It is a very common Indian name for a girl today and also since times immemorial. The concept/word Maya meaning the delusional quality of this Universe first appears in the Vedas. As the magic spell cast by Indra over the mortals. The Vedas predate Buddha by around one thousand years or so. There was no effort in India to efface Buddha or his history or deface his mother's name. Buddha is very much a part of Indian history, culture, spiritual thinking. I once again invite you to visit Sarnath, near Varanasi. You can then visit Bodhgaya nearby. Buddha attained the the status of the " Knower of the Truth " here. Millions of pilgrims from all over the world visit these places. The pilgrims include and have always included hundreds of thousands of Hindu Indians. Buddha had dealt a blow to many a bad practices which had crept into Hinduism. But He was born and died a Hindu. He had told his many followers that he was not to be called a God after he was gone nor his teachings to be designated a new religion. This did not happen. About 750 years after he was gone, Buddhism was dealt a death blow in India as a religion by the revival of Hinduism.
  12. Standard memberDasa
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    15 Oct '11 14:16
    The Vedas pre-date Buddhism a trillion to the power of a trillion years - because the Vedas are eternal and have no beginning and no end.

    Hinduism does not represent true Vedic teachings.

    In fact there is Hinduism and then there are the Vedic teachings (they are not one and the same)

    Buddhism came to the world to serve a purpose and when that purpose was served then Buddhism is no longer require.

    The purpose for Buddhism was to turn people away from the Vedas so they would not use the Vedas
    to kill animals - because they were mis-using the Vedas and opening slaughter facilities for their meat eating in the name of Vedic ritual.

    The Supreme Personality of Godhead incarnated as Lord Buddha to accomplish this mission.

    This paragraph from the Bhagavatam.......
    Lord Buddha (different from widely known Sakyamuni, Siddharta Gautama) had a special mission in Lord's plan to restore Vedic dharma. He came to dismantle the degenerate approach of brahmanas of that time. They were killing animals in the name of Vedic sacrifice. Thus he rejected the Vedas to deprive them of the basis of their misconduct. Later Adi Sankara came and continued this plan by establishing the authority of Vedas but he taught that the Absolute is impersonal. After him came Vaisnava teachers like Ramanuja, Madhva etc. who preached the genuine Vedic conclusion - Absolute is ultimately a person. This supreme person is Visnu/Krsna. At last came Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and established His doctrine of acintya-bhedabheda-tattva, the ultimate Vedic Siddhanta.

    Note: there are true Buddhist teachings and history - and mis-represented Buddhist teachings and history.
  13. Wat?
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    15 Oct '11 14:35
    Originally posted by Dasa
    The Vedas pre-date Buddhism a trillion to the power of a trillion years - because the Vedas are eternal and have no beginning and no end.

    Hinduism does not represent true Vedic teachings.

    In fact there is Hinduism and then there are the Vedic teachings (they are not one and the same)

    Buddhism came to the world to serve a purpose and when that purpose w ...[text shortened]... e are true Buddhist teachings and history - and mis-represented Buddhist teachings and history.
    Go do one, psycho.

    You don't insult me, but only your mere self and your dellusional thoughts in the bigger scheme. You are a complete disgrace to respect!!

    -m.
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