1. Standard memberrvsakhadeo
    rvsakhadeo
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    29 Aug '11 15:08
    A saint was,one day, listening to various problems of his devotees and solving them/guiding them. A person told him that he was feeling very sad. On being asked why,the person told him that his pet parrot had died that day. The saint asked him whether there were any cockroaches in his house and whether any of them had died recently. On being told that quite a no.of them were seen dead at times, the saint asked the man whether he felt sad on the death of cockroaches. The man said no,of course not. The saint told him that the problem was that the man had called the parrot as 'his' parrot but had not conferred that distinction on the cockroaches. The attachmemt to the parrot was the root cause. The saint told other devotees that if they wanted to realize God they have to call God as their God. Unless the relation between them and their God was established,no progress was possible. Hindu Bhakti tradition allows one form of Bhakti,where you are 'friend' of God. Any comments?
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    29 Aug '11 15:31
    Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
    A saint was,one day, listening to various problems of his devotees and solving them/guiding them. A person told him that he was feeling very sad. On being asked why,the person told him that his pet parrot had died that day. The saint asked him whether there were any cockroaches in his house and whether any of them had died recently. On being told that qui ...[text shortened]... indu Bhakti tradition allows one form of Bhakti,where you are 'friend' of God. Any comments?
    OMG!
  3. Cape Town
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    29 Aug '11 15:451 edit
    Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
    The saint told him that the problem was that the man had called the parrot as 'his' parrot but had not conferred that distinction on the cockroaches.
    I don't understand why you characterize this as a 'problem'.

    The saint told other devotees that if they wanted to realize God they have to call God as their God. Unless the relation between them and their God was established,no progress was possible. Hindu Bhakti tradition allows one form of Bhakti,where you are 'friend' of God. Any comments?
    Now you seem to be suggesting, that we should trick ourselves. ie you desire to feel something for God similar to the way the man felt about his parrot, and in order to achieve your desire, you 'fool' yourself by taking ownership of God, making the relationship personal.
    What you don't explain, is why such a personal relationship is required or desirable (other than to state that it is Hindu Bhakti tradition).
  4. Standard memberDasa
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    29 Aug '11 15:45
    Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
    A saint was,one day, listening to various problems of his devotees and solving them/guiding them. A person told him that he was feeling very sad. On being asked why,the person told him that his pet parrot had died that day. The saint asked him whether there were any cockroaches in his house and whether any of them had died recently. On being told that qui ...[text shortened]... indu Bhakti tradition allows one form of Bhakti,where you are 'friend' of God. Any comments?
    This is a nice story giving the complexities of attachment for the things close to us.

    It is true that attachment is what keeps us bound to this material world of suffering and true religion will definately break attachment to all things that are not conducive to advancing in devotional service to the Supreme Lord.

    At the time of death many memories are flashed before our minds and if we focus on material attachment at this most important moment then that specific memory is what gives us the specific situation we are born into in our next life.

    When a devotee of God returns home back to Godhead there are 5 different relationships they may embrace for being with the Lord.

    1. the relationship of friend.
    2. the relationship of lover.
    3, the relationship of servant.
    4. the relationship of awe and reverence.
    5. the relationship of parental affection. (mother father)
    6. the relationship of child.
    7 the relationship of neutrality.

    Most religions will only recognize the relationship of servant and this why many prospective theists may have an aversion to religion.

    The spiritual world is full of variegatedness and everything is fully conscious and aware and full of bliss and knowledge.
  5. Standard memberrvsakhadeo
    rvsakhadeo
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    29 Aug '11 16:01
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I don't understand why you characterize this as a 'problem'.

    [b]The saint told other devotees that if they wanted to realize God they have to call God as their God. Unless the relation between them and their God was established,no progress was possible. Hindu Bhakti tradition allows one form of Bhakti,where you are 'friend' of God. Any comments?

    N ...[text shortened]... onship is required or desirable (other than to state that it is Hindu Bhakti tradition).[/b]
    Unless and until you stop thinking about God as 'something else' or 'something not connected/not related with me',unless and until you divest yourself of your aloofness, you are not going to connect with God. A working relationship must be established first. Realization will follow.
  6. Cape Town
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    29 Aug '11 16:131 edit
    Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
    Unless and until you stop thinking about God as 'something else' or 'something not connected/not related with me',unless and until you divest yourself of your aloofness, you are not going to connect with God. A working relationship must be established first. Realization will follow.
    So you say, but you don't explain why, nor do you explain how you know this.
  7. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    29 Aug '11 16:352 edits
    It's just resting. Pining for the fjords it is.

    Monty Python Parrot Sketch
    YouTube
  8. Standard memberrvsakhadeo
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    29 Aug '11 16:46
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    So you say, but you don't explain why, nor do you explain how you know this.
    In regard to any object of proposed study an arms-length approach cannot work,not even in science. You must relate,before you can begin to understand. This is quite a well known truism, is it not?
  9. Standard memberrvsakhadeo
    rvsakhadeo
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    29 Aug '11 16:49
    Originally posted by JS357
    OMG!
    Exactly!
  10. Standard memberSoothfast
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    29 Aug '11 18:08
    Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
    A saint was,one day, listening to various problems of his devotees and solving them/guiding them. A person told him that he was feeling very sad. On being asked why,the person told him that his pet parrot had died that day. The saint asked him whether there were any cockroaches in his house and whether any of them had died recently. On being told that qui ...[text shortened]... indu Bhakti tradition allows one form of Bhakti,where you are 'friend' of God. Any comments?
    Yoda always says Anakin's attachment to his mother was his foremost impediment of becoming a well-balanced Jedi.
  11. Cape Town
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    29 Aug '11 19:17
    Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
    In regard to any object of proposed study an arms-length approach cannot work,not even in science. You must relate,before you can begin to understand. This is quite a well known truism, is it not?
    No, it is not. I did not need to think of evolution as my pet parrot before I understood it.
    If it was a well known truism, then why did the parrot owner need a saint to explain it to him?
  12. Standard memberSoothfast
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    29 Aug '11 21:55
    Understanding oftentimes precedes attachment.
  13. Subscribersonhouse
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    29 Aug '11 22:33
    Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
    In regard to any object of proposed study an arms-length approach cannot work,not even in science. You must relate,before you can begin to understand. This is quite a well known truism, is it not?
    I think if I was doing research on a laboratory nuclear reactor, I would WANT to do it at arms length, don't you think?
  14. Melbourne, Australia
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    29 Aug '11 23:31
    Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
    A saint was,one day, listening to various problems of his devotees and solving them/guiding them. A person told him that he was feeling very sad. On being asked why,the person told him that his pet parrot had died that day. The saint asked him whether there were any cockroaches in his house and whether any of them had died recently. On being told that qui ...[text shortened]... indu Bhakti tradition allows one form of Bhakti,where you are 'friend' of God. Any comments?
    The Bhakti way is not the reasoning way and some do not understand this. It has some similarities to Pentecostalism within Christianity, where personal relationship and expressive devotion are prior to doctrine and ritual. We see it also in the Sufi tradition.

    One assumes or forms the idea initially from the beginning that there is that which is greater, "God", and decides that to understand this One better a "relationship" is begun in many and different imaginative ways. Most Bhaktis do not believe in the literality of their images and deities and know well that that "God" is always more than can be expressed and much beautiful imagery in song and poetry arises. Via this way it believed that further awareness of the divine is experienced and discovered.

    It is closley aligned with Tantric ways of Hinduism and Buddhism.

    It is essentially theistic from the start, which appears confusing when practiced within Buddhism, where a concept of a finally defined divine "Self" is actively refuted. (There is a Buddhist explanation of this, not apropos here). Bhakti is also essentially subjective, arising from within.

    If this way is chosen, then the premise of the story is totally logical within its path. It responds to the greater mystery and inexpressibility of a theistic understanding of "God" with the heart, not primarily the head and maintains that for those whom this way "fits", a greater vision and experience of "That" can be known.

    It will not fit the cooly rational at all! They must find another way if they are so inclined. Plenty of ways.

    Cheers rv.
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    29 Aug '11 23:59
    Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
    A saint was,one day, listening to various problems of his devotees and solving them/guiding them. A person told him that he was feeling very sad. On being asked why,the person told him that his pet parrot had died that day. The saint asked him whether there were any cockroaches in his house and whether any of them had died recently. On being told that qui ...[text shortened]... indu Bhakti tradition allows one form of Bhakti,where you are 'friend' of God. Any comments?
    Are you seriously equating a persons relationship with the living God to a dead parrot? You should be nailed to your perch...
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