1. Joined
    03 Oct '06
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    05 Dec '06 17:49
    i was wondering how many people on here have had a spiritual experience and what it was... i wish i could say i have had one but have never had any visions, encounters, feelings or even dreams that have really made me think there could be something on the other side trying to tell me something... strange how it happens to some and not others, people mght justify this by saying some are more spiritual than others but this isn't strictly true, as you often hear of spiritual experiences from non-believers
  2. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
    Joined
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    05 Dec '06 20:04
    Originally posted by rooktakesqueen
    i was wondering how many people on here have had a spiritual experience and what it was... i wish i could say i have had one but have never had any visions, encounters, feelings or even dreams that have really made me think there could be something on the other side trying to tell me something... strange how it happens to some and not others, people m ...[text shortened]... ers but this isn't strictly true, as you often hear of spiritual experiences from non-believers
    It's not what happens, but how it's interpreted that matters.
  3. Joined
    04 Apr '06
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    05 Dec '06 21:23
    Originally posted by rooktakesqueen
    i was wondering how many people on here have had a spiritual experience and what it was... i wish i could say i have had one but have never had any visions, encounters, feelings or even dreams that have really made me think there could be something on the other side trying to tell me something... strange how it happens to some and not others, people m ...[text shortened]... ers but this isn't strictly true, as you often hear of spiritual experiences from non-believers
    "When the Student is Ready, the Teacher will appear."
  4. Melbourne, Australia
    Joined
    17 Feb '04
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    05 Dec '06 21:25
    Originally posted by rooktakesqueen
    i was wondering how many people on here have had a spiritual experience and what it was... i wish i could say i have had one but have never had any visions, encounters, feelings or even dreams that have really made me think there could be something on the other side trying to tell me something... strange how it happens to some and not others, people m ...[text shortened]... ers but this isn't strictly true, as you often hear of spiritual experiences from non-believers
    You sound sad not to have had one. Why is that?
    The thing is our personal experience of life is absolutely and utterly subjective. You can never ever know what I experience, as I can never know what you experience.
    Which leaves me to tell you about my experiences.
    So, you're relying on the personal accounts of people, which are always going to be a bit questionable.

    When someone tells you they've had visions or encounters or feelings or dreams, what does that mean? They've experienced something sure, but what. How can you know that their description of it is anything like hwo you would describe the same event?
    You can't.
    So I'm always a bit skeptical of spiritual encounters.
  5. Joined
    03 Oct '06
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    05 Dec '06 22:00
    well, if someone said they were wide awake, walked into a room and saw their dead grandad standing there and he said to them, "you must do the lottery tonight", and so they do the lottery and win it, i dont think thats open to interpretation, that pretty much implies there was a message from that persons grandad about winning the lottery! before you say it doesnt quite happen that way, there have been many accounts of people who have had dreams of deceased relatives telling them of a particular outcome that has proved to be true
  6. Melbourne, Australia
    Joined
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    05 Dec '06 22:24
    Originally posted by rooktakesqueen
    well, if someone said they were wide awake, walked into a room and saw their dead grandad standing there and he said to them, "you must do the lottery tonight", and so they do the lottery and win it, i dont think thats open to interpretation, that pretty much implies there was a message from that persons grandad about winning the lottery! before you ...[text shortened]... d dreams of deceased relatives telling them of a particular outcome that has proved to be true
    Hang on, that's two different situations.
    Let's say I see my dead grandfather (or think I do.) I could describe this to someone else as having happened while I was awake and seeing him appear in my room, or I could describe it as having happened in my dreams. That's two very different situations.
    Either way, you only have my description of the situation to go by, so hardly much to get anything definitive from - which is my point. When you only have a subjective account of an event, then you've got very little.
    If someone else had the same vision at the same time and in the same place, that'd be interesting. If the other witness wasn't a friend, relative or acquaintance of mine (and thereby able to be influenced in some way by me) and saw the same thing as me, that would be really interesting.
    But that isn't the nature of spiritual events - we experience them in isolation and solitude. Or even if there are other people around, you can bet they don't experience the same thing as you.
  7. Joined
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    06 Dec '06 01:13
    Originally posted by amannion
    Hang on, that's two different situations.
    Let's say I see my dead grandfather (or think I do.) I could describe this to someone else as having happened while I was awake and seeing him appear in my room, or I could describe it as having happened in my dreams. That's two very different situations.
    Either way, you only have my description of the situation t ...[text shortened]... there are other people around, you can bet they don't experience the same thing as you.
    what other explanation is there besides a spiritual one? that you just predicted the future by yourself in your dream? the dream would explain the fact that life is predetermined and God knows what will happen.
  8. Melbourne, Australia
    Joined
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    06 Dec '06 01:30
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    what other explanation is there besides a spiritual one? that you just predicted the future by yourself in your dream? the dream would explain the fact that life is predetermined and God knows what will happen.
    I predict the future all the time, just don't get it right very much.
    We all do this. You can do it in your dreams too. So what?
    Here's a challenge for you: for the next 6 months keep a pen and a pad by your bed. When you wake up each morning write down any and all predictions you can remember making the night before in your dreams. Let's say you predicted 100 things in your dreams.
    If 1 of them comes true (or even 2 or 3 or 10 of them) does that mean a spiritual explanation is all that can explain the truth of these? What about the 90 or 99 that didn't come true? Does a spiritual explanation explain these ones? No! Why not? What's the difference?

    The reality is remarkable coincidences seem to happen a lot - like thinking of a friend who then just happens to ring us, or dreaming of a prediction which comes true - only because we fixate on these ones and not on the millions of non-coincidences that occur all the time.

    Here's a future prediction for you: I predict you will reject my response here and continue to believe what you believe.
    Oh my God!
    I'm right.
    It must be the spiritual side of me finally coming through.
    Hallelujah.
    The lord be praised!
  9. Cape Town
    Joined
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    06 Dec '06 06:27
    In Zambia, belief in witchcraft is still very prevalent and I have heard numerous accounts from people who have witnessed or more often met people who have witnessed some form of witchcraft.
    One person I know once saw an owl in broad daylight land on a roof. Later in the day a whirlwind came and ripped of the roof of the same house.
    I even knew a Catholic Brother who claimed he had witnessed witchcraft.
    I personally experience an amazing number of coincidences but as most of them have absolutely know meaning to me, they could hardly be interpreted as messages from someone or something.
    I think in the lottery example given you will find that almost everyone making such a claim did not actually take part in the lottery but are rather claiming that they dreamed the winning numbers and for some reason missed out on the winnings.
  10. Account suspended
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    08 Nov '06
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    06 Dec '06 14:21
    I believe if you chase it down, then a lot of stuff will end up happening to you. If you look at the people who chase it down you will see they are basically losers, so I wouldn't waste my time. 🙂.
  11. Joined
    02 Apr '06
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    06 Dec '06 20:04
    Originally posted by Orange Peel
    I believe if you chase it down, then a lot of stuff will end up happening to you. If you look at the people who chase it down you will see they are basically losers, so I wouldn't waste my time. 🙂.
    Eh? 'people who chase it down' - what is 'it', and why are they 'losers'?
  12. Joined
    03 Oct '06
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    06 Dec '06 20:23
    lets just say you praticed in the art of witchcraft and could make bad things happen... where does this power come from... the witchcraft or the person themself..? ...or is it mere coincidence..? a friend once told me someone he used to know told him that he had said the lords prayer backwards and something bad will now happen to him, a few days later he was involved in a bike accident... my point is mere coincidence, or did the person simply wish something bad to happen, or even worse, was he punished for doing what he did... the problem is if we say the last two options that opens up a whole host of questions...
  13. Melbourne, Australia
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    06 Dec '06 21:29
    Originally posted by rooktakesqueen
    lets just say you praticed in the art of witchcraft and could make bad things happen... where does this power come from... the witchcraft or the person themself..? ...or is it mere coincidence..? a friend once told me someone he used to know told him that he had said the lords prayer backwards and something bad will now happen to him, a few days later ...[text shortened]... did... the problem is if we say the last two options that opens up a whole host of questions...
    Of course it was coincidence.
    Get 1000 people to read the lord's prayer backwards and 1 of them is sure to have a car accident.
    Get another 100 people to read it normally and 1 of them is sure to have a car accident.
    Go figure!
  14. Cape Town
    Joined
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    07 Dec '06 11:461 edit
    Originally posted by rooktakesqueen
    a friend once told me someone he used to know told him that he had said the lords prayer backwards and something bad will now happen to him, a few days later he was involved in a bike accident...
    Coincidences of this nature are expected based on random chance so there is no reason to attribute it to anything else. If he had told you that he would have a bike accident on that specific day, then we could start suspecting something other than random chance.
    Unless a proper scientific study is done with some people reading the prayer forwards and some reading it backwards etc it is almost impossible to identify whether doing so increases your chances of getting bad luck.

    [edit] the human brain contains a sophisticated pattern matching machine which though very useful is also capable of identifying patterns in random noise. (ask any psychiatrist about flash cards)
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