personally and this is me here
i think taking ones own life breaks a univesal law
that of self preservation.irreguarless if it breaks ur gods law or not.
i do know about ritual suicide or hari-kari and killing ur self to "save face" and i think if you believe that way ,then do what you will.
also the law of self preservation goes back to my post about the crucifictional death of jesus.
when i was a young boy in parochial school i was hearing the gospells for the first time.
i was eleated when peter drew his sword and defended jesus against the romans,and totally let down when christ admonished peter,and turned himself in without resistance .
i know by personal experience i would have tried to take out several romans ,before they got me.if they did bring me in alive ,they would have had one hell of a time getting me to comply with anything death or torture. i would defy them.or any enemy for that matter.
well once your dead to this life they can not hurt you any more, but the torture..... i think i would say everything they wanted me to say. To your suicide solution it takes something to take your own life. your term of taking some romans with you is not suicide as i know but a act of desperation.
Originally posted by stokeryes i would have to agree with that
well once your dead to this life they can not hurt you any more, but the torture..... i think i would say everything they wanted me to say. To your suicide solution it takes something to take your own life. your term of taking some romans with you is not suicide as i know but a act of desperation.
also yes torture would break most if not anyones will
remeber though the fighting roman soldiers isnt suicide it is combat.i never said it was suicide and i am not saying jesus comitted suicide
he was executed as a criminal would have been
sad ending to a great life
but none the less i dont want his blood on my hands.he may have died for you...ill die for myself thank you
Originally posted by wibI think it was ancient Greece that used to try (in a court of law) the corpse of a "suicidee" and brutally mutilate it - in an attempt to discourage the practice.
??? You lost me Joe. Please explain. I understand the "selfish" point could be made if you're speaking of the loss and grief the loved ones left behind feel. But is that what you're speaking of?
I agree with Joe, (rational - if such a thing is possible) suicide seems to me to be the ultimate act of selfishness and despondence. You put yourself beyond the care and help of any other human being.
Originally posted by HalitoseI'm still not seeing it Hal. I just don't see how the selfishness label could be put on a suicide victim. They take their own life. They obviously have issues in life that have led them to this decision.
I think it was ancient Greece that used to try (in a court of law) the corpse of a "suicidee" and brutally mutilate it - in an attempt to discourage the practice.
I agree with Joe, (rational - if such a thing is possible) suicide seems to me to be the ultimate act of selfishness and despondence. You put yourself beyond the care and help of any other human being.
Hopelessness, despair, unending pain, terminal illness, mental illness, financial ruin, lost love, and on and on. I can't even guess at all of the reasons people commit suicide.
But labeling the act, or the person, as selfish I just can't see. I don't see putting yourself beyond the care of another human being as selfish. Are there other reasons for this label?
Originally posted by wibBasically Hal elaborated on my point more than I did. I speak from personal experience as somebody very close to me did this when I was a child. To the "loved one" (me in this case) you continue to go through your head occasionally that you were not an important enough person to live for and that is sad.
??? You lost me Joe. Please explain. I understand the "selfish" point could be made if you're speaking of the loss and grief the loved ones left behind feel. But is that what you're speaking of?
I cannot comprehend all of the issues a person goes through that makes them decide suicide is the only solution. Of course there are exceptions (terminal illness,etc) but I am talking about a relatively young, healthy person. Sometimes it is hard to live but there are people that rely on you to live for them and help them. Suicide is a cop out for people who think life got too hard. It's bs to me.
Originally posted by Joe FistOne of my friends found his father hanging in the garage as a child.His mother abandoned him and left him in the care of his grandmother who thought days of our lives was what happened in America.He was always suicidal while I knew him and I know I helped him through some hard times.Lost track of him when I shifted out of town and then got one of those phone calls.Repeating cycles are sad.Time heals a broken heart if you deal with it right.If you hate the person who done it then you have to forgive them...If you love them then you live your life well while they watch over you.That's what I think anyway.And also it is wise not to dwell on it to much as this is fuel to the fire to a suicidal person.
Basically Hal elaborated on my point more than I did. I speak from personal experience as somebody very close to me did this when I was a child. To the "loved one" (me in this case) you continue to go through your head occasionally that you were not an important enough person to live for and that is sad.
I cannot comprehend all of the issues a person ...[text shortened]... em and help them. Suicide is a cop out for people who think life got too hard. It's bs to me.
Originally posted by catfoodtimNo I don't see it as the same thing. Without hesitation I would freely give up my life for my young daughter. I think sacrafice is not the same thing as suicide. Suicide, by my definition, is the willful taking of your own life for no other purpose than to serve whatever need you have drummed up.
giving up your life for someone i would consider the most unselfish act.
but aren't both suicide?