1. Forgotten
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    01 Nov '05 23:01
    personally and this is me here
    i think taking ones own life breaks a univesal law
    that of self preservation.irreguarless if it breaks ur gods law or not.
    i do know about ritual suicide or hari-kari and killing ur self to "save face" and i think if you believe that way ,then do what you will.
    also the law of self preservation goes back to my post about the crucifictional death of jesus.
    when i was a young boy in parochial school i was hearing the gospells for the first time.
    i was eleated when peter drew his sword and defended jesus against the romans,and totally let down when christ admonished peter,and turned himself in without resistance .
    i know by personal experience i would have tried to take out several romans ,before they got me.if they did bring me in alive ,they would have had one hell of a time getting me to comply with anything death or torture. i would defy them.or any enemy for that matter.
  2. England
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    02 Nov '05 12:221 edit
    well once your dead to this life they can not hurt you any more, but the torture..... i think i would say everything they wanted me to say. To your suicide solution it takes something to take your own life. your term of taking some romans with you is not suicide as i know but a act of desperation.
  3. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    02 Nov '05 12:37
    Hydrochloric acid.
  4. Fear The Cow
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    02 Nov '05 12:39
    Suicide is the ultimate act of free will.
  5. Forgotten
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    02 Nov '05 19:15
    Originally posted by stoker
    well once your dead to this life they can not hurt you any more, but the torture..... i think i would say everything they wanted me to say. To your suicide solution it takes something to take your own life. your term of taking some romans with you is not suicide as i know but a act of desperation.
    yes i would have to agree with that
    also yes torture would break most if not anyones will
    remeber though the fighting roman soldiers isnt suicide it is combat.i never said it was suicide and i am not saying jesus comitted suicide
    he was executed as a criminal would have been
    sad ending to a great life
    but none the less i dont want his blood on my hands.he may have died for you...ill die for myself thank you
  6. Standard memberJoe Fist
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    02 Nov '05 20:01
    Originally posted by Chakan
    Suicide is the ultimate act of free will.
    Suicide is perhaps the most selfish act a person, sane or not, can commit
  7. Standard memberwib
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    02 Nov '05 20:43
    Originally posted by Joe Fist
    Suicide is perhaps the most selfish act a person, sane or not, can commit
    ??? You lost me Joe. Please explain. I understand the "selfish" point could be made if you're speaking of the loss and grief the loved ones left behind feel. But is that what you're speaking of?
  8. Standard memberHalitose
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    02 Nov '05 21:37
    Originally posted by wib
    ??? You lost me Joe. Please explain. I understand the "selfish" point could be made if you're speaking of the loss and grief the loved ones left behind feel. But is that what you're speaking of?
    I think it was ancient Greece that used to try (in a court of law) the corpse of a "suicidee" and brutally mutilate it - in an attempt to discourage the practice.

    I agree with Joe, (rational - if such a thing is possible) suicide seems to me to be the ultimate act of selfishness and despondence. You put yourself beyond the care and help of any other human being.
  9. Standard memberwib
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    02 Nov '05 21:51
    Originally posted by Halitose
    I think it was ancient Greece that used to try (in a court of law) the corpse of a "suicidee" and brutally mutilate it - in an attempt to discourage the practice.

    I agree with Joe, (rational - if such a thing is possible) suicide seems to me to be the ultimate act of selfishness and despondence. You put yourself beyond the care and help of any other human being.
    I'm still not seeing it Hal. I just don't see how the selfishness label could be put on a suicide victim. They take their own life. They obviously have issues in life that have led them to this decision.

    Hopelessness, despair, unending pain, terminal illness, mental illness, financial ruin, lost love, and on and on. I can't even guess at all of the reasons people commit suicide.

    But labeling the act, or the person, as selfish I just can't see. I don't see putting yourself beyond the care of another human being as selfish. Are there other reasons for this label?
  10. Standard memberwindmill
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    03 Nov '05 21:48
    If you want to kill yourself then the best way is to go out with a bang.Get some scuba gear,buy or highjack(if money is a problem)a plane.Fly it into outer space.Booooom!!!!
  11. Standard memberJoe Fist
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    03 Nov '05 22:18
    Originally posted by wib
    ??? You lost me Joe. Please explain. I understand the "selfish" point could be made if you're speaking of the loss and grief the loved ones left behind feel. But is that what you're speaking of?
    Basically Hal elaborated on my point more than I did. I speak from personal experience as somebody very close to me did this when I was a child. To the "loved one" (me in this case) you continue to go through your head occasionally that you were not an important enough person to live for and that is sad.

    I cannot comprehend all of the issues a person goes through that makes them decide suicide is the only solution. Of course there are exceptions (terminal illness,etc) but I am talking about a relatively young, healthy person. Sometimes it is hard to live but there are people that rely on you to live for them and help them. Suicide is a cop out for people who think life got too hard. It's bs to me.
  12. Standard memberwindmill
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    04 Nov '05 00:47
    Originally posted by Joe Fist
    Basically Hal elaborated on my point more than I did. I speak from personal experience as somebody very close to me did this when I was a child. To the "loved one" (me in this case) you continue to go through your head occasionally that you were not an important enough person to live for and that is sad.

    I cannot comprehend all of the issues a person ...[text shortened]... em and help them. Suicide is a cop out for people who think life got too hard. It's bs to me.
    One of my friends found his father hanging in the garage as a child.His mother abandoned him and left him in the care of his grandmother who thought days of our lives was what happened in America.He was always suicidal while I knew him and I know I helped him through some hard times.Lost track of him when I shifted out of town and then got one of those phone calls.Repeating cycles are sad.Time heals a broken heart if you deal with it right.If you hate the person who done it then you have to forgive them...If you love them then you live your life well while they watch over you.That's what I think anyway.And also it is wise not to dwell on it to much as this is fuel to the fire to a suicidal person.
  13. Standard memberJoe Fist
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    04 Nov '05 03:03
    Originally posted by catfoodtim
    giving up your life for someone i would consider the most unselfish act.

    but aren't both suicide?
    No I don't see it as the same thing. Without hesitation I would freely give up my life for my young daughter. I think sacrafice is not the same thing as suicide. Suicide, by my definition, is the willful taking of your own life for no other purpose than to serve whatever need you have drummed up.
  14. Standard memberJoe Fist
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    04 Nov '05 03:092 edits
    Originally posted by wib
    I'm still not seeing it Hal. I just don't see how the selfishness label could be put on a suicide victim. They take their own life. They obviously have issues in life that have led them to this decision.

    Hopelessness, despair, unending pain, terminal illness, mental illness, financial ruin, lost love, and on and on. I can't even guess at all of the re ...[text shortened]... self beyond the care of another human being as selfish. Are there other reasons for this label?
    I ask this with complete respect but have you ever lost anybody close to due to suicide? I hope you haven't but, at least for me and perhaps a great deal of my feelings have to do with the age I was at when it happened, I think I wasn't important enough for this person to want to live. None of the people in this person's life mattered. The people that loved this person, and this person was loved. Yes this person was also very troubled and had issues and these issues should have been addressed. You labeled them a "victim" but what were they a victim of? Their own demise by their own hand?

    I am making an assumption that many of us have had difficult challenging situations in our lives. Some of these people who have had your circumstances or better ones or worse ones had decided "Life was too rough for me. Screw it! I'm checking out". Others decide to make the most out of it and make it better not just for themselves but for those around them.
  15. Standard memberPhlabibit
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    04 Nov '05 05:25
    Originally posted by Joe Fist
    I ask this with complete respect but have you ever lost anybody close to due to suicide? I hope you haven't but, at least for me and perhaps a great deal of my feelings have to do with the age I was at when it happened, I think I wasn't important enough for this person to want to live. None of the people in this person's life mattered. The people that ...[text shortened]... to make the most out of it and make it better not just for themselves but for those around them.
    I can't agree... Someone who actually considers and finally decides to kill themselves is not in the right mind to be labeled 'selfish'. They had a real problem they were not able to get over, sometimes as much as we try to help them get over it.

    P-
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