Originally posted by josephw
This is a test to see if any can stay on topic, and to see who can use objective reason and logic without resorting to innuendo, insults, personal attacks and other emotionally driven invectives. No resolution to the topic is required. Just sincere, honest and respectful debate. Off topic replies will be considered as an admission of defeat.
Good luck! He ...[text shortened]... e for, and the creator of all that exists, whether it be visible or invisible, know or unknown?
My response would be no - no such being exists.
A lot of people seem to be happy with the argument that, the universe exists therefore it must have come into existence at some time. Since it must have come into existence, and we don't know of any natural process that could create a universe, then there must exist some being who could, and did, create it.
This rests on some assumptions and misses some - what seem to me anyway - to be some obvious points:
. Assumption - the universe came into existence. This may be the case, but need not. It may be that the universe has always existed. Admittedly this isn't a very 'nice' perspective in that it leaves us with an open-ended problem, but nonetheless the possibility remains that the universe was never created.
. Assumption - we don't know of any natural processes that could create the universe. That's true, but there are many things we didn't know in the past, but do now. It is possible that we will discover a mechanism to create a universe from nothing in the future. How could this be? I don't know, but it seems as likely a possibility to me as that a supernatural being created the universe.
Finally, many seem to resort to the position (and you've done this yourself JW) that the existence of the beauty and wonder around us is, in and of itself, proof of the existence of a supernatural creator.
That may be compelling to someone who already believes in a supernatural creator, but appears as an astonishingly irrational perspective to someone who doesn't.