1. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    USA
    Joined
    14 Jul '07
    Moves
    43012
    19 Feb '14 08:17
    "The act of questioning is the point..."

    ".... And so on and so forth. Augustine is merciless with the text, probing it, comparing it against what we know of the world, searching for the deeper meaning, drawing on the science of the day to understand what it could all possibly mean. Sometimes he arrives at a settled answer, sometimes not. However, the act of faith, the act of the Christian, is taking place in the mere encounter with the scripture as he tries better understand the word of God.

    This is what atheists always fail to understand, and they will never understand it as long as they remain mired in a materialistic mindset: in matters of faith, the questions are the point. The book of Job, for example, is a giant howl of outrage that, in the final analysis, is little more than a litany of questions from Job, his friends, and God. Job’s question–”Seriously, God, why me?”–is never answered directly (it’s answered with … more questions!), but he goes away satisfied. It is a riddle with no answer, but the answer becomes unimportant, because in the process of trying to understand with our limited human capacity, we find enlightenment. The term Atheist only answers what someone doesn’t believe in not what the person does believe in.

    Perhaps because I was a Platonist before I returned to the Church, this never bothered me at all. I understand that the role of the question is central because it is active: it is the way people encounter each other and form a true relationship that can lead to deeper understanding. The act of questioning is the point. That’s because it’s not an act of raw data mining, stripping the shell from the world in order to get to the nut of truth. It’s because we’re humans, and exist only in relation to one another and to our world and our God. Relation is key. Relationships are questions we ask with every action we take and every decision me make. So is faith."

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godandthemachine/2012/08/st-augustine-asking-the-hard-questions-atheists-dont-ask/
  2. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Infidel
    Dunedin
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    45641
    19 Feb '14 08:25
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b The term Atheist only answers what someone doesn’t believe in not what the person does believe in.

    Remember this.
  3. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    19 Feb '14 08:351 edit
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    "The act of questioning is the point..."
    I don't see a single question in your post.
    But it does at least explain why you don't answer questions I put to you and ignore any answers you get to questions you ask.
  4. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    USA
    Joined
    14 Jul '07
    Moves
    43012
    19 Feb '14 12:03
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    [b]Remember this.[/b]
    Yes. It is helpful. What do you believe?
  5. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    USA
    Joined
    14 Jul '07
    Moves
    43012
    19 Feb '14 12:06
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I don't see a single question in your post.
    But it does at least explain why you don't answer questions I put to you and ignore any answers you get to questions you ask.
    There's more. Stay tuned.
  6. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    USA
    Joined
    14 Jul '07
    Moves
    43012
    19 Feb '14 18:58
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]"The act of questioning is the point..."

    ".... And so on and so forth. Augustine is merciless with the text, probing it, comparing it against what we know of the world, searching for the deeper meaning, drawing on the science of the day to understand what it could all possibly mean. Sometimes he arrives at a settled answer, sometimes not. [i]H ...[text shortened]... eos.com/blogs/godandthemachine/2012/08/st-augustine-asking-the-hard-questions-atheists-dont-ask/[/b]
    "St. Augustine Asks the Hard Questions Atheists Don’t Ask" August 15, 2012 By Thomas L. McDonald

    "It’s fun to read or listen to super-duper-smart professional atheists (well, they think they’re smart) banging on about the book of Genesis. It’s a useful issue for them, because the primeval history in scripture is mysterious, complex, and rich in symbolism. So, naturally, Reason Warriors approach it with the childish literalism of a young-earth creationist. Perhaps this works for them because fundamentalism is ill-equipped to properly understand Genesis, which is why friends don’t let friends be fundamentalists. Atheists think Christians believe this is how things really happened.

    One of their techniques is to throw out an endless litany of questions about the creation of the world and then demand instant answers, usually from some poor sap unequipped to respond knowledgeably. “Oh yeah, so God made light before he made the sun? He made plants before he made the sun needed for them to grow? Why are there two creation stories? Huh? HUH?!” And then they stand back in triumph, fold their arms across their chest, marvel at their own genius, and wait for the poor sap to fumble his way through a few pathetic replies.

    This kind of low-hanging fruit is the bread-and-butter of the atheist combox troll and meme-maker, but the really hilarious thing is that their questions are all so pathetic. Because atheists believe they have the corner on reason and logic, they develop an inflated sense of their own intelligence. They gather for “Reason Rallies” as though reason was a wholly owned subsidiary of Atheism Inc., rather than something inherited from the centrality of Aristotelianism to Catholic theology, and thus to Western civilization. Their questions barely even skim the surface of the incredibly deep, profound, vexing, and glorious texts of Genesis 1 & 2.

    Although I have not yet chosen the topic for my master’s thesis, one area I’m considering is the understanding of creation in Genesis, Augustine, and Ratzinger/Benedict. In my research, I’ve been reading Augustine’s massive body of work on the subject. He returned to it in three major works (On Genesis: A Refutation of the Manichees, Unfinished Literal Commentary on Genesis, and The Literal Meaning of Genesis), as well as at the end of Confessions and The City of God.

    There is no more important theologian in the history of Christianity than Augustine. Both Protestants and Catholics claim him, although it must take serious mental gymnastics for Protestants to get past his extremely Catholic world-view. A major part of the liberal Christian project is trying minimize the influence of Augustine, because his conception of original sin (often wildly misunderstood) is considered destructive to a progressive concept of God.

    Yet in spite of his influence, his Literal Meaning of Genesis is very hard to find. As a major statement of his belief, it ranks with City of God and de Trinitate in scope and importance, yet you won’t even find a complete copy of it online, and it was left out of the major collections of the writings of the fathers of the Church...." (2/4)

    Note: It's unlikely that either atheists or theists will concur with all of Thomas L. McDonald's conclusions. My purpose in presenting his paper is not to question atheism nor to promote theism; rather to focus on the basic "concept of God".
  7. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Infidel
    Dunedin
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    45641
    19 Feb '14 19:16
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Yes. It is helpful. What do you believe?
    You don't care what I believe.
    But to humour you.

    I believe the sun will rise tomorrow.
    I believe the All Blacks will win their next game.
    I believe my wife has blonde hair.

    What exactly are you asking?
  8. Joined
    29 Dec '08
    Moves
    6788
    19 Feb '14 19:422 edits
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]"The act of questioning is the point..."

    ".... And so on and so forth. Augustine is merciless with the text, probing it, comparing it against what we know of the world, searching for the deeper meaning, drawing on the science of the day to understand what it could all possibly mean. Sometimes he arrives at a settled answer, sometimes not. [i]H ...[text shortened]... eos.com/blogs/godandthemachine/2012/08/st-augustine-asking-the-hard-questions-atheists-dont-ask/[/b]
    Wherever "The term Atheist only answers what someone doesn’t believe in not what the person does believe in" came from -- I can't find it at the link -- it would be good if people only believed it.

    Especially since another OP of yours is titled "A challenge for atheistic beliefs (theists are..."
  9. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    USA
    Joined
    14 Jul '07
    Moves
    43012
    19 Feb '14 19:564 edits
    Originally posted by JS357
    Wherever "The term Atheist only answers what someone doesn’t believe in not what the person does believe in" came from -- I can't find it at the link -- it would be good if people only believed it.

    Especially since another OP of yours is titled "A challenge for atheistic beliefs (theists are..."
    Please try again; it's taken verbatim right after: "... entire earth? Where did it go so that dry land could emerge? ; How did God work and grow tired enough to need rest if He has no flesh?"

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godandthemachine/2012/08/st-augustine-asking-the-hard-questions-atheists-dont-ask/

    Yes. There's some correlation; however, different authors and different topic focus. OP is taken from the body of his text (since it summarized the thrust). Second installment (2/4) returns to the beginning. Next two will continue as written.

    "A challenge for atheistic beliefs (theists are..." Thread 157975
  10. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    USA
    Joined
    14 Jul '07
    Moves
    43012
    19 Feb '14 20:162 edits
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    You don't care what I believe.
    But to humour you.

    I believe the sun will rise tomorrow.
    I believe the All Blacks will win their next game.
    I believe my wife has blonde hair.

    What exactly are you asking?
    Wouldn't ask if I didn't, wolfgang59.

    "What exactly are you asking?"

    Materialism? Humanism? Philosophical Questioning? Astrology? Socialism and Causes to ameliorate the living conditions of the destitute? HIV/Aids Medical Assistance? You don't give a blank about God or the person and work of Christ or His grace gift of salvation: what do you believe in [care about] besides the weather, games and your dear wife's lovely blonde hair?
  11. Joined
    29 Dec '08
    Moves
    6788
    19 Feb '14 21:20
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Please try again; it's taken verbatim right after: "... entire earth? Where did it go so that dry land could emerge? ; How did God work and grow tired enough to need rest if He has no flesh?"

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godandthemachine/2012/08/st-augustine-asking-the-hard-questions-atheists-dont-ask/

    Yes. There's some correlation; however, diffe ...[text shortened]... e as written.

    "A challenge for atheistic beliefs (theists are..." Thread 157975
    Still can't find it but that's OK, it's the thought that counts.
  12. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    USA
    Joined
    14 Jul '07
    Moves
    43012
    19 Feb '14 22:28
    Originally posted by JS357
    Still can't find it but that's OK, it's the thought that counts.
    The entire paper, including a few replies, will be presented verbatim: (1-2/4) posted; (3/4) and (4/4) to follow. Okay?
  13. Joined
    29 Dec '08
    Moves
    6788
    20 Feb '14 00:06
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    The entire paper, including a few replies, will be presented verbatim: (1-2/4) posted; (3/4) and (4/4) to follow. Okay?
    Don't do it on my account. I'm cool on this.
  14. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    USA
    Joined
    14 Jul '07
    Moves
    43012
    20 Feb '14 01:41
    Originally posted by JS357
    Don't do it on my account. I'm cool on this.
    "cool" is a good thing... one segment at a time became a format imperative because of the text's length.
  15. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Infidel
    Dunedin
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    45641
    20 Feb '14 01:44
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Wouldn't ask if I didn't, wolfgang59.

    "What exactly are you asking?"

    Materialism? Humanism? Philosophical Questioning? Astrology? Socialism and Causes to ameliorate the living conditions of the destitute? HIV/Aids Medical Assistance? You don't give a blank about God or the person and work of Christ or His grace gift of salvation: what do you believe in [care about] besides the weather, games and your dear wife's lovely blonde hair?
    What exactly are you asking?
    One question at a time.
Back to Top