1. SubscriberProper Knob
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    08 Aug '11 09:22
    I found this little gem on the BBC website -

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14417362

    For those 'religionists' who claim that atheism is the new religion, you could just be right.

    It is part of the mainstream Protestant Church in the Netherlands (PKN), and the service is conventional enough, with hymns, readings from the Bible, and the Lord's Prayer. But the message from Mr Hendrikse's sermon seems bleak - "Make the most of life on earth, because it will probably be the only one you get".

    "Personally I have no talent for believing in life after death," Mr Hendrikse says. "No, for me our life, our task, is before death."

    Nor does Klaas Hendrikse believe that God exists at all as a supernatural thing.
  2. Joined
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    08 Aug '11 09:35
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    I found this little gem on the BBC website -

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14417362

    For those 'religionists' who claim that atheism is the new religion, you could just be right.

    It is part of the mainstream Protestant Church in the Netherlands (PKN), and the service is conventional enough, with hymns, readings from the Bible, an ...[text shortened]... r does Klaas Hendrikse believe that God exists at all as a supernatural thing.
    It reminds me of a scene from Yes, Prime Minister:

    Hacker: Is there anyone in the Church who doesn't believe in God?
    Appleby: Why, yes, most of the bishops.

    Nothing like bashing the CofE.
  3. Joined
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    08 Aug '11 09:36
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    It reminds me of a scene from Yes, Prime Minister:

    Hacker: Is there anyone in the Church who doesn't believe in God?
    Appleby: Why, yes, most of the bishops.

    Nothing like bashing the CofE.
    A related scene:

    YouTube
  4. Illinois
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    08 Aug '11 10:421 edit
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    I found this little gem on the BBC website -

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14417362

    For those 'religionists' who claim that atheism is the new religion, you could just be right.

    It is part of the mainstream Protestant Church in the Netherlands (PKN), and the service is conventional enough, with hymns, readings from the Bible, an r does Klaas Hendrikse believe that God exists at all as a supernatural thing.
    If they do not walk with Christ through faith in this life, it undoubtedly will be the only one they get.
  5. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    08 Aug '11 10:52
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    I found this little gem on the BBC website -

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14417362

    For those 'religionists' who claim that atheism is the new religion, you could just be right.

    It is part of the mainstream Protestant Church in the Netherlands (PKN), and the service is conventional enough, with hymns, readings from the Bible, an ...[text shortened]... r does Klaas Hendrikse believe that God exists at all as a supernatural thing.
    Very interesting article. Reminds me a great deal of what Bishop Spong has to say. He, too, does not conceive of god as a theistic 'being.' Like the article says, we can no longer view god through the lens of a 1st century Palestinian, and it is foolish to try to keep god confined in that little box. People in the 21st century find it increasingly difficult to believe that which has become unbelievable.
  6. Donationrwingett
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    08 Aug '11 10:54
    Originally posted by epiphinehas
    If they do not walk with Christ through faith in this life, it undoubtedly will be the only one they get.
    Sounds like you're endorsing Pascal's wager.
  7. Donationrwingett
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    08 Aug '11 11:08
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    I found this little gem on the BBC website -

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14417362

    For those 'religionists' who claim that atheism is the new religion, you could just be right.

    It is part of the mainstream Protestant Church in the Netherlands (PKN), and the service is conventional enough, with hymns, readings from the Bible, an ...[text shortened]... r does Klaas Hendrikse believe that God exists at all as a supernatural thing.
    Not believing in god as a supernatural being does not necessarily make Mr. Hendrikse an atheist. As he says, the word 'god' is very important to him. It's just that he, like Bishop Spong, has a radically different interpretation of what that god is.
  8. Joined
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    08 Aug '11 11:11
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    I found this little gem on the BBC website -

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14417362

    For those 'religionists' who claim that atheism is the new religion, you could just be right.

    It is part of the mainstream Protestant Church in the Netherlands (PKN), and the service is conventional enough, with hymns, readings from the Bible, an ...[text shortened]... r does Klaas Hendrikse believe that God exists at all as a supernatural thing.
    ==============================
    "Personally I have no talent for believing in life after death," Mr Hendrikse says. "No, for me our life, our task, is before death."
    ==================================


    A big fat false dichotomy.
  9. Standard memberPalynka
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    08 Aug '11 12:00
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Not believing in god as a supernatural being does not necessarily make Mr. Hendrikse an atheist. As he says, the word 'god' is very important to him. It's just that he, like Bishop Spong, has a radically different interpretation of what that god is.
    Irrelevant. That's just sand in people's eyes. He doesn't believe in a supernatural being.
  10. Donationrwingett
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    08 Aug '11 12:10
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Irrelevant. That's just sand in people's eyes. He doesn't believe in a supernatural being.
    Why must god be defined as 'a supernatural being'? His point is that such an understanding is an antiquated concept that is no longer tenable. It shouldn't be viewed as redefining god, but as allowing for our understanding of god to mature.
  11. Standard memberPalynka
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    08 Aug '11 12:182 edits
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Why must god be defined as 'a supernatural being'? His point is that such an understanding is an antiquated concept that is no longer tenable. It shouldn't be viewed as redefining god, but as allowing for our understanding of god to mature.
    Check a definition of atheism.

    If the concept of God is no longer tenable, then why not drop it? Why do we need to redefine it in such a way that it bears no resemblance to what the word meant, just so we can cling to the word? It's just a symptom of the man's cognitive dissonance.
  12. Donationrwingett
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    08 Aug '11 12:33
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Check a definition of atheism.
    OK, I'll grant you that. To conceive of god in non-theistic terms would, by definition, make one an atheist. Unless 'god' can be successfully decoupled from 'theism', I guess you are left with the prospect of having atheists who believe in god.
  13. Standard memberPalynka
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    08 Aug '11 12:59
    Originally posted by rwingett
    OK, I'll grant you that. To conceive of god in non-theistic terms would, by definition, make one an atheist. Unless 'god' can be successfully decoupled from 'theism', I guess you are left with the prospect of having atheists who believe in god.
    Language being what it is, people can define words to mean whatever they want. Just that communication might be impaired. In this case, defining God in non-theistic terms will only serve to confuse others. Like I said, sand in people's eyes.
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    08 Aug '11 13:03
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Language being what it is, people can define words to mean whatever they want. Just that communication might be impaired. In this case, defining God in non-theistic terms will only serve to confuse others. Like I said, sand in people's eyes.
    Sand in the eyes of the blind does not impair vision.
  15. Cape Town
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    08 Aug '11 13:09
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Unless 'god' can be successfully decoupled from 'theism', I guess you are left with the prospect of having atheists who believe in god.
    And I suspect that 'believe in' would be the wrong phrase. Many people have redefined 'God' to be some sort of description of the universe, but unless certain assertions are made about how the universe is or works, no belief is required. I believe Einstein was one of those atheists who in refusing to part with the word 'God' only served to cause confusion. Of course in his case it may have been a deliberate attempt to avoid declaring himself atheist, which brings with it significant discrimination.
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