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    26 Dec '07 11:45
    One of the most stupendous moments in human history, documented heavily in the New Testament, is the birth of Jesus Christ. How come historians don't even agree on the YEAR, let alone the day, that this event happened?
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    26 Dec '07 16:201 edit
    Originally posted by gaychessplayer
    One of the most stupendous moments in human history, documented heavily in the New Testament, is the birth of Jesus Christ. How come historians don't even agree on the YEAR, let alone the day, that this event happened?
    Why do you think it was one of the most stupendous moments in human history ?

    Maybe you put more importants on precisely when the moment was than the Bible does.
  3. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    26 Dec '07 17:45
    Originally posted by gaychessplayer
    One of the most stupendous moments in human history, documented heavily in the New Testament, is the birth of Jesus Christ. How come historians don't even agree on the YEAR, let alone the day, that this event happened?
    Historians don't even agree that it definitely happened.
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    26 Dec '07 18:27
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Historians don't even agree that it definitely happened.
    It's true. Many historians believe Christ magically just appeared and was never really born at all. 😛
  5. Standard memberRed Night
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    26 Dec '07 18:32
    Originally posted by gaychessplayer
    One of the most stupendous moments in human history, documented heavily in the New Testament, is the birth of Jesus Christ. How come historians don't even agree on the YEAR, let alone the day, that this event happened?
    I don't know that it is heavily documented in the New Testament.

    You have one story repeated twice.

    And the story comes with conflicting clues:

    In the reign of Herod which ends in 4 BC

    During the Governorship of Quirinius which is 6-12 AD

    At the time of the Census, a Galilean named Judas led a revolt that started by raiding the armory at Sepphoris a few miles from Nazareth and then marched on Jerusalem. His followers were called Zealots.

    The date of december 25th was just made up, no one believed that was the right day.
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    26 Dec '07 18:37
    Originally posted by Red Night
    I don't know that it is heavily documented in the New Testament.

    You have one story repeated twice.

    And the story comes with conflicting clues:

    In the reign of Herod which ends in 4 BC

    During the Governorship of Quirinius which is 6-12 AD

    At the time of the Census, a Galilean named Judas led a revolt that started by raiding the armory at Sep ...[text shortened]... Zealots.

    The date of december 25th was just made up, no one believed that was the right day.
    I don't think that anyone believes that December 25 was the actual day that Christ was born. Perhaps there are but I have not met any including those of faith.
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    26 Dec '07 18:43
    Originally posted by Red Night
    I don't know that it is heavily documented in the New Testament.

    You have one story repeated twice.

    And the story comes with conflicting clues:

    In the reign of Herod which ends in 4 BC

    During the Governorship of Quirinius which is 6-12 AD

    At the time of the Census, a Galilean named Judas led a revolt that started by raiding the armory at Sep ...[text shortened]... Zealots.

    The date of december 25th was just made up, no one believed that was the right day.
    Also, the Matthew and Luke nativity stories are quite different--I hadn't realized just how contradictory they were until my minister recently pointed it out.
  8. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    26 Dec '07 19:19
    Originally posted by Red Night
    I don't know that it is heavily documented in the New Testament.

    You have one story repeated twice.

    And the story comes with conflicting clues:

    In the reign of Herod which ends in 4 BC

    During the Governorship of Quirinius which is 6-12 AD

    At the time of the Census, a Galilean named Judas led a revolt that started by raiding the armory at Sep ...[text shortened]... Zealots.

    The date of december 25th was just made up, no one believed that was the right day.
    It wasn't made up. It was chosen in order to make pagan Germans more receptive to Christianity. They probably got it from the proximity to the Winter Solstice, but I'm not sure.
  9. Standard memberRed Night
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    27 Dec '07 03:14
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    It wasn't made up. It was chosen in order to make pagan Germans more receptive to Christianity. They probably got it from the proximity to the Winter Solstice, but I'm not sure.
    There are a lot of re-birth stories centering around the solstice.

    Osiris, Mithras, Ishtar, Saturn, Apollo
  10. Standard memberDavid C
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    27 Dec '07 03:50
    Originally posted by Red Night
    There are a lot of re-birth stories centering around the solstice.

    Osiris, Mithras, Ishtar, Saturn, Apollo
    And why is that, pray tell?
  11. Hmmm . . .
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    27 Dec '07 04:07
    Originally posted by David C
    And why is that, pray tell?
    The progressive dying of the light, and then the lengthening day—

    Wait a minute! You know all that. 🙂

    How ya doin’, David. Nice to see you hangin’ around again.
  12. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    27 Dec '07 04:07
    Originally posted by David C
    And why is that, pray tell?
    Because that's when the days start getting longer again and life begins to bloom once more.
  13. Standard memberRed Night
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    27 Dec '07 04:39
    Originally posted by David C
    And why is that, pray tell?
    As societies became agrarian that stopped worshipping the constellation gods of the zodiac and began to worship the one sun god.
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    27 Dec '07 04:442 edits
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Because that's when the days start getting longer again and life begins to bloom once more.
    And the Roman Catholic Church desired to make everything pertaining to Christ palatable to the masses. So they came up with the 25th of December, the old Saturnalia, be the birthday of Jesus.

    And they adopted the ancient symbol fo a mother and child which predated the Gospels by over a throusand years, be the Virgin Mary with baby Jesus. And the world has Christmas and Easter and Holloween. And skeptics point to all of these mixtures as proof that the Gospel of Jesus is of pagan origin.

    Yet when reading the New Testament none of these things can be found. (One exception I am aware of - in King James Version, the word "Easter" may be found in the book of Acts.) It is a bad translation at that point.

    And we have Thursday which is really THOR's day.
    And we have Monday which is really the MOON's day.
    It is hard to get away from historic Christiandom's influence on Western culture.

    And many other things related to pagan worship which have been "Christianized"

    Then we have skeptics of the Gospel react that all this religious mixture "proves" that the Christian Gospel was a pagan belief system.

    This mixture of the pure gospel with pagan symbols was the fulfillment of Christ's prophecy that the woman took three measures of leaven and mixed it with the meal until the whole thing became leavened.

    So Satan tried to destroy the Christian church from without by persecution. Then he tried to destroy the church from within by mixture with the world.

    Both have failed. And the gates of Hades still cannot prevail against the church that Christ founded.
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    27 Dec '07 04:536 edits
    Well over 100 years ago Christian scholar Alexander Hislop, in his book The Two Babylons documented pagan symbols Christianized by the Roman Catholics.

    He told us all about the garbs and dress of the clerical class in Catholicism. He told us all about Easter, Christmas, yul logs, Christmas trees, December 25th, Easter Eggs, reefs, stockings, Mother and Child pictures going back to Babylonian religion centries before the birth of Jesus.

    We learned these things over a century ago in Hislop's classic book on symbols of the Roman Catholic Church - "The Two Babylons"

    And the Protestant churches, though they broke away in the Reformation, carried loads of these symbols with them.
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