1. Joined
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    28 Nov '05 21:23
    I am assuming it was only negative. Can anyone find any documents that show the church had a positive effect on civil liberties?
  2. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    28 Nov '05 21:26
    Originally posted by mrzenu
    I am assuming it was only negative. Can anyone find any documents that show the church had a positive effect on civil liberties?
    Do I hear a call for Ivanhoe?
  3. London
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    29 Nov '05 00:121 edit
    Originally posted by mrzenu
    I am assuming it was only negative. Can anyone find any documents that show the church had a positive effect on civil liberties?
    Why do you assume it's only negative? What's your evidence?

    EDIT: I'm sure the Catholics of Eastern Europe under the Communists would be interested in your theory that the influence of the Church on civil liberties was "only negative".
  4. Standard memberRemoved
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    29 Nov '05 00:34
    I'm not Catholic, but I am thankful for the good they have done. They helped preserve the scriptures and without the RCC we might never have become civilized in the first place.
  5. Joined
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    29 Nov '05 00:37
    EDIT : Before 1848
  6. Joined
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    29 Nov '05 00:38
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    I'm not Catholic, but I am thankful for the good they have done. They helped preserve the scriptures and without the RCC we might never have become civilized in the first place.
    could you please cite documents and futher explanation
  7. Standard memberRemoved
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    29 Nov '05 00:59
    Originally posted by mrzenu
    could you please cite documents and futher explanation
    I don't have the time, but I bet LH can help.😉
  8. Standard memberWulebgr
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    29 Nov '05 01:191 edit
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    without the RCC we might never have become civilized in the first place.
    This is true, for it was their war against the infidels in the Holy Land (the Crusades) that introduced Europeans to civilized peoples.
  9. Joined
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    29 Nov '05 01:36
    are you being sarcastic?
  10. Felicific Forest
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    29 Nov '05 02:30
    http://www.catholicleague.org/faqs.htm

    Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights.


    What is the Catholic League?

    The Catholic League is the nation’s largest Catholic civil rights organization. Founded in 1973 by the late Father Virgil C. Blum, S.J., the Catholic League defends the right of Catholics – lay and clergy alike – to participate in American public life without defamation or discrimination.

    Motivated by the letter and the spirit of the First Amendment, the Catholic League works to safeguard both the religious freedom rights and the free speech rights of Catholics whenever and wherever they are threatened.


    Is the Catholic League Necessary?

    Absolutely. Harvard professor Arthur Schlesinger, Sr. once observed that prejudice against the Catholic Church was "the deepest bias in the history of the American people." Yale professor Peter Viereck commented that "Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals."

    And today’s brand of anti-Catholicism is more virulent and more pervasive than ever before in American history. While it is true that Catholics as individuals have made progress in securing their rights, the degree of hostility exhibited against the Catholic Church is appalling. Quite simply, Catholic bashing has become a staple of American society.


    What Does the Catholic League Do?

    When slanderous assaults are made against the Catholic Church, the Catholic League hits the newspapers, television, and radio talk shows defending the right of the Church to promote its teachings with as much verve as any other institution in society.
    When Catholics are the victims of a bigoted portrayal by the media, the Catholic League issues news releases bringing the matter to the attention of the public. It may also encourage a boycott of the program’s sponsors.
    When Catholic students or employees are denied their rights in school or on the job, the Catholic League makes a formal response to the guilty parties; the league response may include litigation.
    When the religious freedom rights of any American are threatened, the Catholic League stands ready to fight for justice in the courts.
    When Catholics are slighted by public officials, the Catholic League calls press conferences alerting the public to the unacceptable behavior of their servants.
    When Catholic interests are unfairly represented by public policy initiatives, the Catholic League offers testimony before legislative bodies to set the record straight.
    When officials in government, the media and education need an informed perspective on Catholic civil rights issues, the Catholic League provides a quick and effective response.


    http://www.catholicleague.org/faqs.htm
  11. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    29 Nov '05 03:122 edits
    Originally posted by ivanhoe

    What Does the Catholic League Do?

    When Catholic students or employees are denied their rights in school or on the job, the Catholic League makes a formal response to the guilty parties; the league response may include litigation.
    Does this include Catholic boys who are denied their right not to be molested by a priest in school? Has the Catholic League ever made a formal response or pursued litigation on their behalf against the priests?

    Isn't it really the case that the Catholic League places the interests of the Church itself above the civil rights of its members, and thus would never take such action?
  12. Standard memberWulebgr
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    29 Nov '05 03:37
    Originally posted by mrzenu
    are you being sarcastic?
    no
  13. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    29 Nov '05 03:44
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    While it is true that Catholics as individuals have made progress in securing their rights, the degree of hostility exhibited against the Catholic Church is appalling. Quite simply, Catholic bashing has become a staple of American society.
    To the extent that this is true, which I think is being greatly exaggerated here, do you think people just made up this hostility out of the blue, or do you think the Church's actions have brought it about?
  14. London
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    29 Nov '05 15:37
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    To the extent that this is true, which I think is being greatly exaggerated here, do you think people just made up this hostility out of the blue, or do you think the Church's actions have brought it about?
    If you're talking about the sex abuse scandals, then the hostility certainly predates it.
  15. London
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    29 Nov '05 15:38
    Originally posted by mrzenu
    EDIT : Before 1848
    What's so special about 1848?
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