1. SubscriberFMF
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    28 Oct '09 03:02
    In 1987 Vice President George Bush Snr. (later President from 1989 to 1993) said: "I don't know that atheists should be considered as patriots, nor should they be considered as citizens."

    Is there any Biblical basis for this opinion?

    Is there any constitutional basis for it?
  2. Maryland
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    28 Oct '09 03:07
    Originally posted by FMF
    In 1987 Vice President George Bush Snr. (later President from 1989 to 1993) said: "I don't know that atheists should be considered as patriots, nor should they be considered as citizens."

    Is there any Biblical basis for this opinion?

    Is there any constitutional basis for it?
    If Sr. Bush said this, he was 100% wrong. This is not constitutional.
  3. SubscriberFMF
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    28 Oct '09 03:13
    Originally posted by 667joe
    If Sr. Bush said this, he was 100% wrong.
    If?
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    28 Oct '09 11:072 edits
    Originally posted by FMF
    In 1987 Vice President George Bush Snr. (later President from 1989 to 1993) said: "I don't know that atheists should be considered as patriots, nor should they be considered as citizens."

    Is there any Biblical basis for this opinion?

    Is there any constitutional basis for it?
    Its like me brining up Robert Riech saying that all old people should be herded up and sent to death camps in order for us to afford medical care. Then FMF comes along and asks, where is the rest of the quote because I'm sure you are taking it out of context? 😛 Of course, I at least revealed my source. In fact, I even provided a 3 minute video of him espousing such dribble. No doubt, it was still not representative of how he or other liberals feel about health care.
  5. SubscriberFMF
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    28 Oct '09 11:15
    Originally posted by whodey
    Its like me brining up Robert Riech saying that all old people should be herded up and sent to death camps in order for us to afford medical care. Then FMF comes along and asks, where is the rest of the quote because I'm sure you are taking it out of context? 😛 Of course, I at least revealed my source. In fact, I even provided a 3 minute video of him esp ...[text shortened]... No doubt, it was still not representative of how he or other liberals feel about health care.
    So you have no comment or insight into the concept that Bush espoused?
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    28 Oct '09 15:36
    Originally posted by FMF
    So you have no comment or insight into the concept that Bush espoused?
    Whodey doesn't let silly things like "the topic of the thread" get in the way of what he posts 😛

    Bush's quote was insane and should have caused a huge uproar. The only reason it didn't is because of the existing prejudice against atheists in the US.

    Imagine if any politician said:

    "I don't know that christians should be considered as patriots, nor should they be considered as citizens."

    or

    "I don't know that jews should be considered as patriots, nor should they be considered as citizens."

    If someone said either of those two then their political life would be over, but if you say it about atheists.... you are just appealing to the republican base.
  7. Standard memberHand of Hecate
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    28 Oct '09 17:02
    Originally posted by FMF
    In 1987 Vice President George Bush Snr. (later President from 1989 to 1993) said: "I don't know that atheists should be considered as patriots, nor should they be considered as citizens."

    Is there any Biblical basis for this opinion?

    Is there any constitutional basis for it?
    Those damn athiests, always running around killing people, blowing up buildings and raping things. If those athiests would just get some religion we wouldn't have all these problems with terrorism n' stuff.
  8. Standard memberPalynka
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    28 Oct '09 17:221 edit
    Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
    Those damn athiests, always running around killing people, blowing up buildings and raping things. If those athiests would just get some religion we wouldn't have all these problems with terrorism n' stuff.
    You forgot the part where you accuse atheism of being a faith-based religion. Then the circle would be complete.
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    28 Oct '09 17:32
    Originally posted by Palynka
    You forgot the part where you accuse atheism of being a faith-based religion. Then the circle would be complete.
    I am very much into the faith-based religion of atheism. I also have the hobby of not stamp collecting.
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    28 Oct '09 20:174 edits
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    [b]Whodey doesn't let silly things like "the topic of the thread" get in the way of what he posts 😛
    Whodey would simply like to see the news source as well as the context in which it was said but apparently we only need to do this for those on the left who are attacked for stupid things they say. As for defending Bush, I could care less, rather, I'm just trying to give him a fair shake. FMF can either provide it or end of story.
  11. SubscriberProper Knob
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    28 Oct '09 20:24
    Originally posted by whodey
    Whodey would simply like to see the news source as well as the context in which it was said but apparently we only need to do this for those on the left who are attacked for stupid things they say. As for defending Bush, I could care less, rather, I'm just trying to give him a fair shake. FMF can either provide it or end of story.
    http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/ghwbush.htm

    Here's the story.
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    28 Oct '09 20:43
    Originally posted by whodey
    Whodey would simply like to see the news source as well as the context in which it was said but apparently we only need to do this for those on the left who are attacked for stupid things they say. As for defending Bush, I could care less, rather, I'm just trying to give him a fair shake. FMF can either provide it or end of story.
    I didn't say anything about defending Bush. I certainly didn't claim you were defending him.

    I'm curious though, can you think of a logical context in which such a statement would be acceptable? I mean other than having "I'm just kidding" before or after it or it being in a SNL skit?
  13. SubscriberFMF
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    29 Oct '09 00:40
    Originally posted by whodey
    Whodey would simply like to see the news source as well as the context in which it was said but apparently we only need to do this for those on the left who are attacked for stupid things they say. As for defending Bush, I could care less, rather, I'm just trying to give him a fair shake. FMF can either provide it or end of story.
    Oh dear, you silly billy.

    The questions are:

    Is there any Biblical basis for this opinion: I don't know that atheists should be considered as patriots, nor should they be considered as citizens." ?

    Is there any constitutional basis for it?

    Whether Bush Snr said it or not scarcely matters.

    This thread is not about Bush. Although, it seems, whodey is desparately trying to make the thread about whodey.
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    29 Oct '09 00:591 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Oh dear, you silly billy.

    The questions are:

    [b]Is there any Biblical basis for this opinion:
    I don't know that atheists should be considered as patriots, nor should they be considered as citizens." ?

    Is there any constitutional basis for it?

    Whether Bush Snr said it or not scarcely matters.

    This thread is not about Bush. Although, it seems, whodey is desparately trying to make the thread about whodey.[/b]
    Seriously folks, go read the Federalist Papers. The Founders were conscious of religious strife in Europe. It infuriates me that some American conservatives misread the constitution when they argue that it favors a particular religion. They are having brain agonies now because not only is their cherished refuge of racism dissolving but they also suspect that the country is beginning to change in a numerically non-favorable way. It is hard not to pity them - but not too hard. There are enumerable quotes by almost all of the founders that they considered religion to be a matter of conscience. They explicitly outlawed religious tests not because they opposed religion but because they favored freedom of conscience. If the state can enforce your religion - it can also enforce any other! I was raised in a religiously conservative tradition that fiercely believed in the Constitution and Freedom of Conscience. We wanted the government to be strictly neutral because we wanted no interference. If it is a sad fact to you that your neighborhood is becoming more colorful (maybe even your own family) then, I must suggest, look for the answer in yourself. As for politics (which must enter into this because so much of what we say, think, and do these days is political) certainly everyone in every western society had a hand in endangering our future (and i mean that literally) so we all bear the responsibility for improving our prospects (and we're all going to waste time arguing about pinheads and then it is a crap-shoot whether we make it. You're welcome, kids!)
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    29 Oct '09 03:41
    Originally posted by FMF

    Is there any Biblical basis for this opinion: Is there any constitutional basis for it?
    In that case, no and no.
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