09 Apr '05 04:43>2 edits
Originally posted by DarfiusSo the universe is a spiritual entitity then? You get more religious everyday, Bennett.
Your flaws include placing words in other people's mouths, and then reasoning fallaciously upon these words.
Admittedly so. Sometimes. And not that time. But it's fun to watch you dance.
I don't recall claiming that th I'm a poor student. Or you're a poor teacher. One of the two.
I didn’t say that either, did I? I said the universe contains these entities. I’ve already defined for you what the universe is, in another thread. Go look it up.
Are you equating 'contains' to 'is'? Why do we have any reason to believe the universe isn't physical?
What part of ‘contains’ don’t you understand? What reason do we have to believe the universe is physical? Not simply because it contains physical entities, surely. The universe also contains abstract entities, and mental entities. What follows from this: nothing at all.
Name me a physical entitity that wasn't the effect of a prior cause.
How is this relevant? I am not claiming that the universe is a physical entity. The point I was making is that this is not a scientific principle. This is a metaphysical claim on your part, and irrelevant to my claims about the universe.
Prove it. I've learned atheists lie a lot. Not accusing you, but I'm not as gullible anymore.
Go read through your own drivel, this has been pointed out to you by Starrman and I and others on numerous occasions.
Prove it. Name me some scientists. Ad populum
Look up Quantum Mechanics and Randomness, Darfius. You’re in college now, you should learn to do your homework. Then look up the EPR paradox. Then look up John Bell (he’s a physicist), and Bell’s inequality. After this, you will be on your way to understanding randomness as it occurs in QM, and you will realize that the vast majority of theoretical physicist reject determinism in the physical domain.
You're right. It also wouldn't follow that it should. Where are we at then? Someone's bias has to win out. I'll go with the one that makes more sense.
Well, if you think that being subject to causal laws is sufficient for the principle to apply, then either you apply it to the spiritual or you’ll be being inconsistent. Consistency isn’t your strong suit, however, so I fear you’ll take this option.
No. God's decision to be sad causes Him to be sad. I couldn't force God to do anything and it would be amusing to watch me try (if I were suicidal).
If God’s decision to be sad causes him to be sad, then God is subject to causal forces he himself originates. Hence, he still is subject to causal laws. Hence your position is shown to be as wack as it initially appeared.
Why'd you say 'so' as if that followed?
‘Cause it does. If spiritual entities can both be affected by causes and be causes themselves (think of your eternal soul, which I'm sure you believe can both be affected by God and exert some causal force of it's own), then they are subject to causal laws (‘cause that is just what it means to be subject to causal laws, to exist within the causal order).
Your argument is "If God can be eternal, then so can the universe! Even though the evidence points to the contrary!"
There is no evidence to the contrary, Darfius. There is absolutely not one shred of evidence indicating that the universe has not always been. There is evidence that the universe was very small at one point. I am sure you know the difference between being small and not being there at all, don’t you?
Tell me, bbarr, if the singularity was eternal, what was different about the point in "eternity" that caused the Big Bang? Were things building up from eternity past?
I haven’t claimed that the singularity was eternal. That’s you making stuff up again.
I'm afraid I'm a poor student.
Yeah, well, your brand of religion trains people not to think, so don’t blame yourself.