Why do Christians continue to use this expression to refer to eternal life in the Kingdom of God when the bible only applies this expression the free gift to justification of ALL MEN, through the death of Christ
The gift of God is eternal life.
The FREE gift of God is justification for all people
Here are the 3 times this expression is used by Paul
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.(Romans 5:15-18 KJV)
The free gift is the justification of all men through the death of Christ
The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ.
The free gift came upon all men - its free
The gift of eternal life requires good works and keeping the the commandments.
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@rajk999 said<<The gift of eternal life requires good works and keeping the the commandments.>>
Why do Christians continue to use this expression to refer to eternal life in the Kingdom of God when the bible only applies this expression the free gift to justification of ALL MEN, through the death of Christ
The gift of God is eternal life.
The FREE gift of God is justification for all people
Here are the 3 times this expression is used by Paul
[i]But not ...[text shortened]... ee came upon all men
The gift of eternal life requires good works and keeping the the commandments.
Is that what the Apostle John says?
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
(John 3:16)
Is that what Jesus Christ said?
“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
(John 6:40)
Is that what the Apostle Paul said?
“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
(Romans 6:23)
Only in rajk999’s world does a gift have to earned 🙄
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@rajk999 saidI’m not going to debate this with you because I find it utterly boring and you and I have been over it loads of times.
Why do Christians continue to use this expression to refer to eternal life in the Kingdom of God
The answer to your question is because; salvation is described as being a gift in the NT; it is a scriptural theme running through the NT which is interspersed with instructions to do good works as a result of receiving it.
The more interesting, albeit rhetorical, question for me is why you can’t seem to understand this despite having it pointed out to you over and over and over and over and over again.
It’s as though this part of your brain was at some point downgraded to fetchmybecker 2.0.
07 Jan 22
@pb1022 saidWe only interested in one thing and that is what the bible says, so forget about what you say or I say. So here it is again :
Only in rajk999’s world does a gift have to earned 🙄
The expression 'free gift' appears 3 times in Romans 5 and never again in the bible. It is used only with regard to justification by the death of Christ. Paul said this free gift of justification came upon all people. All people in the world from Adam to the end of time are justified by the death of Christ.
Eternal life is never once referred to as a free gift. It is a gift of God, for which the receiver must QUALIFY The criteria for qualification are
1. justification - already granted freely by the Grace of God. It was not through anyone's good works that the justification was done and it is given freely to all people
2. righteousness and good works, clearly explained in detail by Christ and all the Apostles. Those who do not qualify are cast out.
This is the Good News of the Gospel proclaimed by the angel at the birth of Christ
And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.(Luke 2:10-14 KJV)
The good news comes to all people ... Good will toward men
The Gospel of Christians removes this critical element of the saving power of the death Jesus Christ upon all people. It is for all people. Not just Christians.
I say again that the Christian continues to be in a position of privilege because of their faith. But that is a separate matter from the justification that came upon all men through the death of Christ.
@divegeester saidWell you are staring to sound like sonship complaining to have to say the same things over and over and over. Maybe it is because what you say does not make sense.
I’m not going to debate this with you because I find it utterly boring and you and I have been over it loads of times.
The answer to your question is because; salvation is described as being a gift in the NT; it is a scriptural theme running through the NT which is interspersed with instructions to do good works as a result of receiving it.
The more interesting, a ...[text shortened]... again.
It’s as though this part of your brain was at some point downgraded to fetchmybecker 2.0.
First, 'gift' and 'free gift' are two different things. One is free, and the other has conditions. Both are not free.
Next the core of your argument is this. ... ... salvation is described as being a gift in the NT; it is a scriptural theme running through the NT which is interspersed with instructions to do good works as a result of receiving it.
My problem is that Jesus never said this. If that is not a problem for you then that is fine.
Finally the words 'saved' and 'salvation' are words that have many meanings and hence they cause confusion. Im trying to use the actual words in the bible like justification and justified, or eternal life etc
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07 Jan 22
@rajk999 saidYou need to try harder than this.
First, 'gift' and 'free gift' are two different things. One is free, and the other has conditions. Both are not free.
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07 Jan 22
@rajk999 saidYou need to try harder than this too.
Well you are staring to sound like sonship complaining to have to say the same things over and over and over. Maybe it is because what you say does not make sense.
07 Jan 22
@divegeester saidThe gift of eternal life, has qualifying conditions.
You need to try harder than this.
All people are justified by the death of Christ
Not all get eternal life
Some do and some are cast out.
Clearly eternal life is not a freebie.
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07 Jan 22
@rajk999 saidThen this is the more interesting topic.
My problem is that Jesus never said this. If that is not a problem for you then that is fine.
- Is your Christianity based only on the words attributed to Jesus?
- why not the rest of the NT? And how do you know that the gospels upon which you base your beliefs about the “words of Jesus” are reliable?
- if so then it is no surprise that you disagree on doctrine with those who take the entire Bible to be the word of god and surely you would be better off addressing this differential of thought
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07 Jan 22
1 edit
@rajk999 saidThen it’s not a gift, it is an exchange, a trade.
The gift of eternal life, has qualifying conditions.
07 Jan 22
@divegeester saidNo it is a gift if the value of what is received far exceeds the value of what was given. Eg if you by $200 in groceries and that entitled you to receive a $50,000 car, then that is not a trade. Its a gift. The bible clear that eternal life does not come to all people, neither does it come to those professing faith. It comes to those who live righteously. So something is amiss with your doctrine.
Then it’s not a gift, it is an exchange, a trade.