The Greatest Bullsh*t Story Ever Told

One othe thing I think modern man in his arrogance is not aware of. That is to what degree God has blessed man with advancement of technology and medicine so as to combat some natural disasters.

I think this is one area where cynics assume that God is opposed to man and would not aid him. But my Bible says something like "The Lord keeps watch over all knowledge"

Perish the skeptical thought, but I think in more occasions then we give credit for, God blessed some breakthrough of science or provided some bright mind to help eleviate human suffering.

Originally posted by jaywill
One othe thing I think modern man in his arrogance is not aware of. That is to what degree God has blessed man with advancement of technology and medicine so as to combat some natural disasters.

I think this is one area where cynics assume that God is opposed to man and would not aid him. But my Bible says something like [b]"The Lord keeps watch over all ...[text shortened]... ed some breakthrough of science or provided some bright mind to help eleviate human suffering.

Modern man is not aware of it as there is no evidence for that assertion whatsoever.

Just as ridiculous as Karoly Azcel claiming such feats of human advancement were as a result of aliens.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Modern man is not aware of it as there is no evidence for that assertion whatsoever.

Just as ridiculous as Karoly Azcel claiming such feats of human advancement were as a result of aliens.

Some modern men are not aware of it.

Of course if those who do testified of the grace of God they experienced to complete their studies or discover some matter through God's support, you would not believe it.

Neither would you believe answered prayer in any matter. Neither is popular media liable to talk about it.

You might as well get use to that fact that believers in God do science too. And some of them seek God for guidance and endurance and wisdom in thier studies. I have known some personally.

It would be arrogance for you to say none of them ever had a prayer for help in any matter of their human lives or could look back after a successful career in science with some thanksgiving to God.

At best all you could say is you don't believe in God. Big deal.

Copied without permission from a book by Graves "Scientists of Faith" published by Kregel.

Here is a list of some Christian people who were scientists:

Some Famous Scientists who were Christians

John Philoponus late 6th Century Aristotle's early Christian critic

Hugh of St. Victor c. 1096-1141 theologian of science

Robert Grosseteste c. 1168-1253 reform-minded bishop-scientist

Roger Bacon c. 1220-1292 Doctor Mirabiles

Dietrich von Frieberg c. 1250-c. 1310 the priest who solved the mystery of the rainbow

Thomas Bradwardine c. 1290-1349 student of motion

Nicole Oresme c. 1320-1382 inventor of scientific graphic techniques

Nicholas of Cusa 1401-1464 grappler with infinity

Georgias Agricola 1495-1555 founder of metallurgy

Johannes Kepler 1571-1630 discoverer of the laws of planetary motion

Johannes Baptista van Helmont 1579-1644 founder of pneumatic chemistry and chemical physiology

Francesco Maria Grimaldi 1618-1663 discoverer of the diffraction of light Catholic

Blaise Pascal 1623-1662 mathematical prodigy and universal genius

Robert Boyle 1627-1691 founder of modern chemistry

John Ray 1627-1705 cataloger of British flora and fauna Calvinist (denomination?)

Isaac Barrow 1630-1677 Newton's teacher

Antonie van Leeuwenhoek 1632-1723 discoverer of bacteria

Niels Seno 1638-1686 founder of geology

James Bradley 1693-1762 discoverer of the aberration of starlight

Ewald Georg von Kleist c. 1700-1748 inventor of the Leyden jar

Carolus Linnaeus 1707-1778 classifer of all living things

Leonhard Euler 1707-1783 the prolific mathematician

John Dalton 1766-1844 founder of modern atomic theory

Thomas Young 1773-1829 first to conduct a double-slit experiment with light

David Brewster 1781-1868 researcher of polarized light

Adem Sedgwick 1785-1873 geologist of the Cambrian

Augustin-Jean Fresnel 1788-1827 the physicist of light waves

Augustin Louis Cauchy 1789-1857 soulwinning mathematician

Michael Faraday 1791-1867 giant of electrical research

John Frederick William Herschel 1792-1871 cataloger of the Southern skies

Matthew Fontaine Maury 1806-1873 pathfinder of the seas

Philip Henry Gosse 1810-1888 popular naturalist

Asa Gray 1810-1888 influential botanist

James Dwight Dana 1813-1895 systematizer of minerology

George Boole 1815-1864 discoverer of pure mathematics

James Prescott Joule 1818-1889 originator of Joule's Law

John Couch Adams 1819-1892 codiscoverer of Neptune

George Gabriel Stokes 1819-1903 theorist of fluorescence

Gregor Mendel 1822-1884 pioneer in genetics

William Thomson, Lord Kelvin 1824-1907 physicist of thermodynammics

Georg Friedrich Bernhard Riemann 1829-1907 the non-Euclidean geometer behind relativity theory

James Clerk Maxwell 1831-1879 father of modern physics

Edward William Morley 1838-1923 Michelson's partner in measuring the speed of light

Pierre-Maurice-Marie Duhem 1861-1923 the physicist who recovered the science of the Middle Ages

Georges Lemaitre 1894-1966 the prist who showed us the universe is expanding

George Washington Carver c. 1864-1943 pioneer in chemurgy

Arthur Stanley Eddington 1882-1944 the astronomer who ruled stellar theory

Originally posted by jaywill
Some modern men are not aware of it.

Of course if those who do testified of the grace of God they experienced to complete their studies or discover some matter through God's support, you would not believe it.

Neither would you believe answered prayer in any matter. Neither is popular media liable to talk about it.

You might as well get use ...[text shortened]... me thanksgiving to God.

At best all you could say is you don't believe in God. Big deal.

You seem to be confused here, i don't need to get use to that fact that believers in God do science too, as you put it for i am well aware of that fact already.

What i am contesting here is the assertion that somehow God himself put these ideas in to mans head. If you believe that to be true, could you be so kind as to let me know which specific scientific ideas God put into which scientists brain.

It would be arrogance for you to say none of them ever had a prayer for help in any matter of their human lives or could look back after a successful career in science with some thanksgiving to God

It would be, that's why i haven't said it. You made that up.

At best all you could say is you don't believe in God. Big deal

For a Christian, sometimes you can be very spiteful.

Originally posted by jaywill
Copied without permission from a book by Graves [b]"Scientists of Faith" published by Kregel.

Here is a list of some Christian people who were scientists:

Some Famous Scientists who were Christians

John Philoponus late 6th Century Aristotle's early Christian critic

Hugh of St. Victor c. 1096-1141 theologian of science

Robert Grosset ...[text shortened]... in chemurgy

Arthur Stanley Eddington 1882-1944 the astronomer who ruled stellar theory[/b]

I never claimed there weren't any Christian scientists.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
You seem to be confused here, i don't need to get use to that fact that believers in God do science too, as you put it for i am well aware of that fact already.

What i am contesting here is the assertion that somehow God himself put these ideas in to mans head. If you believe that to be true, could you be so kind as to let me know which specif ...[text shortened]... u don't believe in God. Big deal

For a Christian, sometimes you can be very spiteful.[/b]

I am not confused.

I said if they were to testify to the aid that they received in their lives from God, or answered prayer for direction, guidance, blesssing in their careers, you would probably not believe God had anything to do with their success.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
I never claimed there weren't any Christian scientists.

========================
never claimed there weren't any Christian scientists.
===========================

true.

The claim was made by you or another poster to whose aid you have come, that God had nothing to do with science's advancement.

I would say God had to do with the successful careers of a number of Christian scienctists. That's for starters.

I believe His blessing could be on the careers of non-Christian ones also.

Look at the wonderful blessing this here Internet has been. I can share the Gospel with people all over the world. As the Roman highways gave Paul a way to travel the world to preach the New Testament so God is still overseeing knowledge and advancement for His purpose.

Originally posted by jaywill
I believe His blessing could be on the careers of non-Christian ones also.

So you realize that the whole exercise of listing Christian scientists was a meaningless waste of time? Why did you do it?

The whole argument is ridiculous anyway. Either God helps us deal with natural disasters not at all, partially, or completely. It is blatantly obvious that he doesn't help us completely, so there really is no excuse for him. If he helps us partially as you claim then it begs the question of why he stops there. A no interference policy is actually far easier to explain.

I also wonder why you made reference to 'modern man'. Who is this 'modern man'? Did 'ancient man' have a different view on natural disasters? Why do you not classify yourself as a modern man?

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]========================
never claimed there weren't any Christian scientists.
===========================

true.

The claim was made by you or another poster to whose aid you have come, that God had nothing to do with science's advancement.

I would say God had to do with the successful careers of a number of Christian scienctis ...[text shortened]... reach the New Testament so God is still overseeing knowledge and advancement for His purpose.[/b]

Firstly i haven't come to the aid of anyone, if you're talking about black beetle in the Intectually Impoverished thread, i think he's perfectly capable of answerng himself.

If you weren't confused, why did most of your post deal with rebutting a claim that i never actually made?

Does your book also contain a list of all the scientists who have been murdered by religious fundamentalists throughout the years? I'd like to see that list. Do you think they may have been blessed by God only to be then killed by the very people who worship God? Seems a little cruel.

Originally posted by daniel58
There's only One God.

Unless you count Satan. He has godly powers.

Originally posted by jaywill
Copied without permission from a book by Graves [b]"Scientists of Faith" published by Kregel.

Here is a list of some Christian people who were scientists:

Some Famous Scientists who were Christians

John Philoponus late 6th Century Aristotle's early Christian critic

Hugh of St. Victor c. 1096-1141 theologian of science

Robert Grosset in chemurgy

Arthur Stanley Eddington 1882-1944 the astronomer who ruled stellar theory[/b]

Your list of famous scientists who had faith in a god is impressive but ends I notice in the mid-20th century and while a few famous present day scientists with faith in a god can likely be roled out too this demonstrates little in my opinion. From the data presented below these individuals can be considered "outliers" not representing a consensus scientific position that god as a hypothesis is not of interest as a credible proposition.

The table below was taken directly from:
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/news/file002.html
This I think reflects probably a trend among all educated people where belief in a god is decreasing dramatically as superstitions are put to one side.

Table 1 Comparison of survey answers among "greater" scientists

Belief in personal God 1914 1933 1998
Personal belief 27.7 15 7.0
Personal disbelief 52.7 68 72.2
Doubt or agnosticism 20.9 17 20.8

Belief in human immortality 1914 1933 1998
Personal belief 35.2 18 7.9
Personal disbelief 25.4 53 76.7
Doubt or agnosticism 43.7 29 23.3