The Holy Spirit - Person or Force

Originally posted by RJHinds
Remember too, that Jesus said that the Father judges no one, for all judgment has been given to the Son. Can't you see that when the Son judges it is the same as God judging, because the Son is a person in the Godhead with the Father and the Holy Spirit?

[b]For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, that all should honor the ...[text shortened]... or the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

(John 5:22-23 NKJV)

The Instructor[/b]

It means no such thing. Jehovah (((( lets ))))) his son do this. Nothing there even remotely says they are the same spirit being.
An owner of a business let's his manager do the hiring and firing of employess but does not mean they are the same being does it or that the owner has no say if need be in who gets hired or fired right? Or the owner could actually fire the manager if it neded to be done.
How do you get they are the same spirit being from that scripture? You can't.......

Originally posted by galveston75
It means no such thing. Jehovah (((( lets ))))) his son do this. Nothing there even remotely says they are the same spirit being.
An owner of a business let's his manager do the hiring and firing of employess but does not mean they are the same being does it or that the owner has no say if need be in who gets hired or fired right? Or the owner could ac ...[text shortened]... be done.
How do you get they are the same spirit being from that scripture? You can't.......

Perhaps I can explain it more simply in terms of a family.

My name is Hinds and my son's name is Hinds and so we are both called Hinds because we are members of the Hinds family. We are also both called humans because we are members of the Human family. My son could be call the son of Hinds and I could be called father Hinds, but we are both Hinds and both humans. But that does not make us the same person. We are two distinct persons within the same family with the same family name. We also have other names added to distinguish us from each other. In the old days it might be done by adding the suffix "son" after the name of the father, like Johnson for the son of John. In the case of Hinds, the name Hindson may have resulted from that.

Now using that for our analogy, realizing it is not exactly the same, let us suppose God is similar to the human family and the Father of that family has the name YAH and the Son of the Father inherits the name of His Father and His name would also be YAH. Maybe a suffix is also added to distinguish the Father from the Son. This might be YAHSHUA in the case of JESUS, meaning YAH saves or God's salvation, as will appear in many Bible dictionaries. Anyway, the Son can be referred to as God, just as the Father is called God, because they are both persons in the same God family. However, we must not forget that the God family is one specific family in the spirit realm similar to the fact that humans are classified as one specific family in the animal kingdom.

When YAHshua (Jesus) told the disciples to go baptize in the NAME (singular) of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, his disciples were only reported to have baptized in the NAME (singular) of YAHshus (Jesus), which we know means YAH saves or God's salvation.

YAHshua (Jesus) said, "I have come in My Father’s name..."
(John 5:43 NKJV)

I am aware that this is not the same, but do you at least understand this analogy?

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
Perhaps I can explain it more simply in terms of a family.

My name is Hinds and my son's name is Hinds and so we are both called Hinds because we are members of the Hinds family. We are also both called humans because we are members of the Human family. My son could be call the son of Hinds and I could be called father Hinds, but we are both Hinds and b ...[text shortened]... that this is not the same, but do you at least understand this analogy?

The Instructor

Maybe a good try and I appreciate you taking your time but it is not working. Nothing you said proves anything about the trinity. The issue here is you do not want to recognize the name of Jehovah and that his is over Jesus from day one to today. Until you do, your stuck with this weird explination.
Where is the holy spirit's name? What is it called?

The Holy Spirit is the stud of the trinity. He is the one who impregnates the woman when the time comes.

(Rumor has it that the "holy spirit" was really Joseph's drunken cousin Elmer, however... 😞)

Originally posted by SwissGambit
The Holy Spirit is the stud of the trinity. He is the one who impregnates the woman when the time comes.

(Rumor has it that the "holy spirit" was really Joseph's drunken cousin Elmer, however... 😞)

“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

(Matthew 12:31-32 NKJV)

The Instructor

Originally posted by galveston75
Maybe a good try and I appreciate you taking your time but it is not working. Nothing you said proves anything about the trinity. The issue here is you do not want to recognize the name of Jehovah and that his is over Jesus from day one to today. Until you do, your stuck with this weird explination.
Where is the holy spirit's name? What is it called?

The Holy Spirit has the same name as the Father and the Son because He is of the same family of God. The Holy Spirit is called God. See below:

But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession. And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet. But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

Then Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and breathed his last. So great fear came upon all those who heard these things. And the young men arose and wrapped him up, carried him out, and buried him.

Now it was about three hours later when his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. And Peter answered her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for so much?”

She said, “Yes, for so much.”

Then Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” Then immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. And the young men came in and found her dead, and carrying her out, buried her by her husband. So great fear came upon all the church and upon all who heard these things.

(Acts 5:1-11 NKJV)

The Instructor

On grieving the Holy Spirit -

"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed unto the day of redemption." (Eph. 4:30)

λυπέω
lupeō
Thayer Definition:
1) to make sorrowful
2) to affect with sadness, to cause grief, to throw into sorrow
3) to grieve, to offend
4) to make one uneasy, to cause him a scruple
Part of Speech: verb

This verb is used some 36 times in the NT ~ in most occurrences something was done or was said ‘by the subject’ that ‘caused’ sorrow or grief in the one (the object) who witnessed what was done or said ~ in Eph 4:30 the ‘subjects’ of the ‘verb’ (λυπειτε is in the 2nd Person Plural, Present, Active, Imperative) are the Ephesians and the ‘object’ of the ‘verb’ is the Holy Spirit ~ the Ephesians (2nd Person Plural) are being ‘commanded’ (Imperative Mood) to NOT ‘continually’ (Present Tense) be causing sorrow ‘toward’ (Active Voice) the Holy Spirit ~ the Voice determines the direction of the Action of the ‘verb’ ~ the Active Voice describes the action to be ‘by the subject’ ‘on (or toward) the object’ – the Passive Voice describes the action to be ‘by the object’ ‘on (or toward) the subject’ – the Middle Voice is indeterminate and may indicate some sort of common action.

Put another way ~ the Active Voice indicates that the Subject is actively doing the action ~ the Passive Voice indicates the Subject is passively receiving the action ~ the Middle Voice indicates that either or both may be true of the Subject.

In Eph 4:30 the Ephesians are definitely 'causing' the Holy Spirit to be grieved and this has to stop.

Originally posted by RJHinds
The Holy Spirit has the same name as the Father and the Son because He is of the same family of God. The Holy Spirit is called God. See below:

[b]But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession. And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet ...[text shortened]... all the church and upon all who heard these things.

(Acts 5:1-11 NKJV)

The Instructor[/b]

Sorry but don't see anything like that in these verses...

The Holy Spirit as the Comforter or Paraclete:

John 14:16 reveals that the Spirit is the Comforter (the Paraclete): “I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you forever.” The Greek word rendered “Comforter” here is parakletos. Paraclete is the anglicized form of this Greek word. In Greek parakletos denotes someone alongside who takes care of our cause, our affairs. It is composed of two words: a preposition that means with and a form of the word for call. In ancient times a paraclete was a helper, an advocate, a counsel, an intercessor. A paraclete was someone who served a particular person by taking care of his needs. As one who is always present, a paraclete may be considered a waiter, a helper, and even an attorney. In a note on John 14:16 Darby says that a paraclete was “one who carries on the cause of any one and helps him.” In his translation of 1 John 2:1, where the same Greek word is used, Darby says that we have a patron with the Father. Then in a note he explains that he uses the word patron in the sense of the Roman patron, one who maintained the interests of his clients in every way. We may say that the Spirit today is our Patron. He is with us to take care of our situation.

The Paraclete, the Comforter, signifies one called to another’s side to help him. Hence, the Paraclete is a helper. The Spirit as the Paraclete is always available to help us. Furthermore, the Paraclete is an Advocate and a Counsel. He is also the One who consoles us. Therefore, He is the Consoler, the Comforter. As the consummation of the Triune God, the Spirit as the Comforter, the Paraclete, is our helper, patron, counselor, and comforter who takes care of our needs in our daily living.

(my bolding)
Further reading on the Person of the Holy Spirit - http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?id=082F07

Originally posted by galveston75
Sorry but don't see anything like that in these verses...

Really? How did you miss this?

But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession. And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet. But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

You have eyes, yet you see not.

Originally posted by galveston75
Sorry but don't see anything like that in these verses...

Look again with your sunglasses off at these two sentences spoken to Ananias by the apostle Peter:

But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? ...
You have not lied to men but to God.”

SENTENCE 1: The apostle Peter tells Ananias that HIS LIE WAS TO THE HOLY SPIRIT.

SENTENCE 2: The apostle Peter tells Ananias that HIS LIE WAS TO GOD.

LOGICAL CONCLUSION: HOLY SPIRIT = GOD

The Instructor

P.S. Even Suzianne sees it. 😀

The Holy Spirit is Christ in His pneumatic form reaching and coming to every believer.

"And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you forever, even the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, ... " (John 14:16,17a)

The "another Comforter" is "the Spirit of reality".

If there is "another Comforter" that strongly implies that there must have been a first Comforter preceeding "another Comforter". How can there be "another" unless there has been one Comforter already ?

The "another Comforter" is the previous first Comforter coming in another form. This proved in verses following.

"[Even] the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him; but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you." (v.17)

It is Jesus Christ who is both the initial Comforter and "another Comforter".

1.) As Jesus Christ in His physical form He was WITH the disciples.
2.) As Jesus Christ as "another Comforter" He will be IN the disciples -

"But you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you."

3.) As to the past and up to that moment Christ as the initial Comforter was WITH them.
4.) As to the future after His resurrection He will be "another Comfoter" who will be "IN" them.

5.) The world will not have this indwelling of Jesus as "another Comforter". But those who becomes lovers of Jesus and "receive Him" will have this "another Comforter", Christ in His pneumatic form distributed to each of them.

That the Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ coming to be IN the disciples is definitely also proved by verse 18

"I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you." (v.18)

The "He" of verse 17 who will abide in the disciples in verse 17 suddenly becomes the "I" coming to the disciples in verse 18.

"I will not leave you as orphans; I AM COMING TO YOU".

6.) The First Comforter was with the disciples - that was Jesus.
7.) The Another Comforter coming TO the disciples, not leaving them as orphans, is ALSO Jesus.

The Holy Spirit as "another Comforter" is the first Comforter Christ being dispensed and distributed into man. This another Comforter is Jesus Christ in His pneumatic form distributed into all people who believe and receive Christ on this side of His resurrection.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Really? How did you miss this?

But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession. And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles’ feet. But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to [b]lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back pa ...[text shortened]... rt? You have not lied to men but to God.”

You have eyes, yet you see not.[/b]

You know that goes both ways...