@sonship saidWho is asking you to "Give up your belief"?
If I were an atheist making a case for the human spirit, I don't think the impression of exclusivity would be different.
"Give up your belief" may make you feel more comfortable for a moment.
But when you an agnostic/atheist launch out on discussion of the soul and spirit of man I don't think your philosophy will be somehow less exclusive.
2 edits
So you don't have a definition of the humanspirit of the kind / scope/ application that I asked for that's [1] your own, nor [2] one you endorse, nor [3] one you subscribe to, right?
I prefer to use my own words then be asked stealth-fully by you if I agree with you.
The Bible's revelation of the three parts of man is to me pretty universal.
We are spirit and soul and body.
That is all peoples, everywhere, in all times, across all cultures, male, female, and every race or nationality or tongue or language or tribe.
If I said all peoples have a body, I don't think there would be any objection.
If I said all peoples have a soul, probably I would not have any objection.
If I said in addition to a soul, the Bible says people have human spirit, I think most people would say they think soul and spirit are the same.
So be it. I would help them to see the distinction which would necessarily usually include some explanation of the teaching of the Bible.
Now if someone somewhere said "We do not know about the bible, but we think there is a spirit in addition to the soul" I'll deal with it when that happens. I would not be shocked completely though.
We still must be born again in the spirit according to the Son of God.
I am not completely unfamilar with surprising things. I once saw a advertisement for a Jewish Bible study which spoke of living water. My reaction was like what Jesus told His disciples when they wanted to STOP others from healing in the name of Jesus, when they were not following them.
Jesus said to allow them. He said in this instance those who were not against Him were for Him.
@sonship saidI get that you have partisan religious dogma that you want to recite, and that's OK. If you are UNABLE to offer a definition with the broader scope that I am interested in, just admit it.
@FMFSo you don't have a definition of the humanspirit of the kind / scope/ application that I asked for that's [1] your own, nor [2] one you endorse, nor [3] one you subscribe to, right?
I prefer to use my own words then be asked stealth-fully by you if I agree with you.
The Bible's revelation of the three parts of man is to me pretty universal. ...[text shortened]...
Jesus said to allow them. He said in this instance those who were not against Him were for him.
@sonship saidAre people with "dead" or "damaged" human spirits because they are not "born again" Christians not as completely human as "born again" Christians, to your way of thinking?
@FMFSo you don't have a definition of the humanspirit of the kind / scope/ application that I asked for that's [1] your own, nor [2] one you endorse, nor [3] one you subscribe to, right?
I prefer to use my own words then be asked stealth-fully by you if I agree with you.
The Bible's revelation of the three parts of man is to me pretty universal. ...[text shortened]...
Jesus said to allow them. He said in this instance those who were not against Him were for Him.
1 edit
I get that you have partisan religious dogma that you want to recite, and that's OK. If you are UNABLE to offer a definition with the broader scope that I am interested in, just admit it.
You may be interested in something else. I am interested in the revelation from God to man in the Bible.
I am not surprised that it says "You must be born again" and you are interested in believing "you [need not] be born again." I understand that.
I am going to pursue "Marvel not that I say to you, you must be born again."(John 3:7) .
You go ahead and marvel and look for an alternative. Jesus has won my confidence completely.
@sonship saidIf you are unable to do it, just admit it.
@FMFI get that you have partisan religious dogma that you want to recite, and that's OK. If you are UNABLE to offer a definition with the broader scope that I am interested in, just admit it.
You may be interested in something else. I am interested in the revelation from God to man in the Bible.
I am not surprised that it says "You must be ...[text shortened]... b].
You go ahead and marvel and look for an alternative. Jesus has won my confidence completely.
2 edits
Are people with "dead" or "damaged" human spirits because they are not "born again" Christians not as completely human as "born again" Christians, to your way of thinking?
If your spirit is not born of the Holy Spirit an entire dimension to human life is not being experienced.
This is like a six cylinder car running on only four of its cylinders.
To make things even a bit more complicated, there are powers and energies in the human soul which are untapped. And various disciplines throughout the world have different ways to unleash this soulish power.
Often when this meditation techniques or techniques of martial art or other methods tap into a person's latent soul power, this is mistaken for spiritual experience.
But undoubtedly, without the regeneration of the human spirit, the human soul has in itself some pretty amazing things it can do which have been buried.
Peoples and religions of the world for a long time have developed techniques of various kinds to unlock this buried soulish power.
I would refer interested parties to consult the book by Watchman Nee called "The Latent Power of the Soul" . Google it.
Buddhist monks, Eastern disciplines, martial arts, western practices of hypnotism, clairvoyance, and other science of the mind - science of the soul beliefs DO sometimes unleash deeply buried powers of the human soul.
1 edit
If you are unable to do it, just admit it.
I don't know. Maybe.
What I am sure of is that the Bible's revelation from God to mankind is important to know.
All you wish to do is gradually eliminate the Bible's exclusive claim to some truths to eventually substitute your own as exclusive.
1 edit
@sonship saidHang on. Clairvoyance? Science of the mind?!
@FMFAre people with "dead" or "damaged" human spirits because they are not "born again" Christians not as completely human as "born again" Christians, to your way of thinking?
If your spirit is not born of the Holy Spirit an entire dimension to human life is not being experienced.
This is like a six cylinder car running on only four of its cylind ...[text shortened]... the mind - science of the soul beliefs DO sometimes unleash deeply buried powers of the human soul.
2 edits
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Man has three parts - spirit and soul and body.
To contact the world realm of God the Spirit - there is the human spirit.
To contact the world of other selves and other minds - there is the human soul.
To contact the physical world - there is the physical body.
That is three realms of existence and three "components" of the entire human being designed each to interact with each realm.
The human spirit is deadened when we are born in this world.
Now within the human soul are buried under the collapse of humanity managerial abilities which few of us use. You may know that we appear to use only a slight percentage of our total brain power.
Throughout history, ancient and modern practitioners have developed methods to stir up and revive these latent powers of the human soul.
For this reason, some of the things we know that can be accomplished by esoteric religions and methods of meditation we take seriously. They are not all fraudulent.
Some religions stumble around the edges of such phenomenon. Others have successfully taped into these soul powers. Most mistake these forces to be God or spiritual in nature.
It gets even more complicated then this. But I refrain from stirring up more curiosity for its own sake. So I suspend talking on this for now.
@sonship saidSo what is your definition of "the human spirit" that applies to all these humans, Christians and non-Christians alike?
@FMFAre people with "dead" or "damaged" human spirits because they are not "born again" Christians not as completely human as "born again" Christians, to your way of thinking?
If your spirit is not born of the Holy Spirit an entire dimension to human life is not being experienced.
This is like a six cylinder car running on only four of its cylind ...[text shortened]... the mind - science of the soul beliefs DO sometimes unleash deeply buried powers of the human soul.
@sonship saidWhat evidence can you cite, in terms of your behaviour and demanour here in this community, that your human spirit is "running like a six cylinder car" and not running like it has "only four cylinders"?
If your spirit is not born of the Holy Spirit an entire dimension to human life is not being experienced.
This is like a six cylinder car running on only four of its cylinders.
2 edits
sonship, if you have no evidence and there is nothing you can point to substantiate what you are asserting, just admit it rather than accuse me of being "unbelievably evil", or some such, for asking you.
My comment about you being "unbelievably evil" was concerning an entirely different matter quite long ago. Why are you finding it useful to parade it out now as if that dispute was related to this subject ?
And you don't have to believe that you have enough evidence to persuade you that there is a spirit in man. You be persuaded that there is nothing else with you except the human soul.
We who believe the Bible about the spirit and soul and body realize that not everyone is going to be persuaded.
If you are trying to tell me "sonship, my feelings are still hurt" I did apologize to everyone here about things which I said which were overly hurtful. Remember?