1. Joined
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    13 Jul '07 16:33
    If there was no such thing as salvation, and religion was used strictly as a moral, spiritual or even cultural "guide", would humans and races co-exist more peacefully?

    If no religion was right or wrong as a means of salvation and it was merely a personal choice, would there be so much acrimony?
  2. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    13 Jul '07 17:381 edit
    Originally posted by darvlay
    If there was no such thing as salvation, and religion was used strictly as a moral, spiritual or even cultural "guide", would humans and races co-exist more peacefully?

    If no religion was right or wrong as a means of salvation and it was merely a personal choice, would there be so much acrimony?
    I believe this is already the case, but too few people realize it.
  3. Joined
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    13 Jul '07 17:56
    Originally posted by darvlay
    If there was no such thing as salvation, and religion was used strictly as a moral, spiritual or even cultural "guide", would humans and races co-exist more peacefully?

    If no religion was right or wrong as a means of salvation and it was merely a personal choice, would there be so much acrimony?
    Religion is an excuse man. We don’t need religion to punch someone in the face, drink till we vomit or kill someone… but it is O’ so convenient.

    If there was a single red bouncy ball on earth, I’m sure it would be a great reason to go do all of the above as well 😛

    People are not good by nature. Few if any actually celebrate St. Patrick on St. Patrick’s day... we just celebrate ourselves under someone else’s name.
  4. Standard memberRajk999
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    13 Jul '07 20:15
    Originally posted by darvlay
    If there was no such thing as salvation, and religion was used strictly as a moral, spiritual or even cultural "guide", would humans and races co-exist more peacefully?

    If no religion was right or wrong as a means of salvation and it was merely a personal choice, would there be so much acrimony?
    An interesting question. Let me rack my little brain and I will give my opinion. But I am leaning towards thinking that things wont change all that much.
  5. Standard memberRemoved
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    13 Jul '07 21:01
    Originally posted by darvlay
    If there was no such thing as salvation, and religion was used strictly as a moral, spiritual or even cultural "guide", would humans and races co-exist more peacefully?

    If no religion was right or wrong as a means of salvation and it was merely a personal choice, would there be so much acrimony?
    With no salvation, if the bible were only a guide, things would be worse. Why? Because the fault lies in the human heart. It is corrupt. Now, if we could remove greed, lust, envy, etc....now you might have something...However, the "emotions" I listed, have a spiritual nature and cannot be removed naturally...
  6. Standard memberknightmeister
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    13 Jul '07 21:04
    Originally posted by darvlay
    If there was no such thing as salvation, and religion was used strictly as a moral, spiritual or even cultural "guide", would humans and races co-exist more peacefully?

    If no religion was right or wrong as a means of salvation and it was merely a personal choice, would there be so much acrimony?
    I'm bored of religion being used as a punch bag excuse for what men do. Humans can find anything to fight and kill over , football ,territory , women , but does this mean that having a kick around with some girlies on a piece of land you own inherently bad?
  7. Standard memberNemesio
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    13 Jul '07 22:41
    Originally posted by darvlay
    If there was no such thing as salvation, and religion was used strictly as a moral, spiritual or even cultural "guide", would humans and races co-exist more peacefully?

    If no religion was right or wrong as a means of salvation and it was merely a personal choice, would there be so much acrimony?
    I think the Santa Claus aspect of religion is pretty essential to its success
    as a moral guide. I mean the 'he sees when you are sleeping, he knows
    if you're awake' aspect of things. The success of the human race depends
    on most people doing reasonable good most of the time. However,
    larger propinquity group size means slightly deviant behavior can transpire
    with little notice and reprecussion. The idea that 'God is watching' and
    will punish you mitigates against that.

    So, I think the salvation aspect of religion cannot be separated from it
    without making it essentially impotent; if God isn't watching, then what
    reason to I have to consider avoiding sin?

    Yes, I know it isn't reasonable to do so, but how many times have
    you known people to behave unreasonably? I know dozens of people
    who will lie to your face, but if you ask them to put their hand on a Bible
    and say it, won't lie. I know people who drop the F-bomb in every other
    sentence in a conversation, but won't say 'poop' in a church building.

    Consider this story, which is 100% true: I know a guy who was being
    assualted by a bunch of urban youth. One of them pulled out a gun
    and was going to shoot him (having robbed him of the 20 or so dollars
    he had on him). Another one said, 'Don't shoot him here, we're in front
    of a church,' and the group started to drag him away. He moaned, 'Jesus
    help me,' and they all ran away without shooting him.

    With attitudes like this, I think the 'Santa Claus' God model does in fact
    play a mitigating role in making some people act more peacefully,
    at least in the West. Certainly, the idea of religion inclines other people
    towards severe violence.

    Just adding my two cents.
    Nemesio
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    13 Jul '07 23:18
    Maybe Jesus did help him....
  9. Standard memberNemesio
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    14 Jul '07 00:28
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Maybe Jesus did help him....
    You've utterly missed the point of the story.
  10. Joined
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    14 Jul '07 00:30
    But still... maybe Jesus did help him?
  11. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    14 Jul '07 00:33
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Maybe Jesus did help him....
    I had to fart, and I was hoping it was silent and not loud so I wouldn't get caught, and then I let it loose just as someone walked past with the movie "Fartman" in their hand.

    It was silent.

    Maybe Jesus helped me too!
  12. Standard memberRemoved
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    14 Jul '07 01:04
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    You've utterly missed the point of the story.
    No, not really. But what you insinuate is that the "wise" like yourself know better and the thought of God watching is irrelevent. While the simple masses would adhere to sinful behaviour. Would that not make an "elitist" group who can do what they please without regard to conscience?
  13. Standard memberNemesio
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    14 Jul '07 01:22
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    But what you insinuate is that the "wise" like yourself know better and the thought of God watching is irrelevent. While the simple masses would adhere to sinful behaviour. Would that not make an "elitist" group who can do what they please without regard to conscience?
    Well, now you're just being a jerk. I never said that I believed that 'God isn't watching.' My
    reply was directly to Darvlay's inquiry about whether religion would have the mass appeal that it
    does if it did not have a salvation component. I responded to that inquiry with my impression based
    on my specific experience.

    I think that this impression is well founded since I hear many conservative Christians saying things
    like 'What good would Christianity be if we found out Jesus didn't rise from the dead?' Or when theists
    in general say that without God there can be no morality.

    Rather than attacking something I didn't say, why don't you say something about the topic at hand?

    Nemesio
  14. Standard memberRemoved
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    14 Jul '07 02:02
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    Well, now you're just being a jerk. I never said that I believed that 'God isn't watching.' My
    reply was directly to Darvlay's inquiry about whether religion would have the mass appeal that it
    does if it did not have a salvation component. I responded to that inquiry with my impression based
    on my specific experience.

    I think that this impression ...[text shortened]... omething I didn't say, why don't you say something about the topic at hand?

    Nemesio
    I'm sorry, my apologies...your right, I read your post too quickly. And I agree, the God watching aspect would be useless without the rest. Sometimes I browse without reading the entire post....and like now, I end up with foot in mouth.....will try to do better....😳
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    14 Jul '07 03:411 edit
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    I'm sorry, my apologies...your right, I read your post too quickly. And I agree, the God watching aspect would be useless without the rest. Sometimes I browse without reading the entire post....and like now, I end up with foot in mouth.....will try to do better....😳
    I think he may be the most misunderstood person I have ever met. 😛

    Other than myself, that is.
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