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Originally posted by @kellyjayLet me reply beginning with the second point. Then I would go back to comment on the first point.
... and Jesus in John said that those that don’t believe in Him are condemned already.
That is right according to John 3:18.
All of us are sinners, but Jesus came to save the lost. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life no comes to the Father except through Him. If we do not go to Him making Him our Lord and Savior we will not receive His Spirit thus not be able to do the works He has for us, and not belong to Him.
That is clear. Thank God for His mercy to save us.
Now back to a fine point I'd like to raise about Romans 8:1 to which you allude when you wrote:
Here’s the thing in Romans we are told there’s no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, ...
The condemnation of that passage is the SELF condemnation of the previous chapter 7. That chapter ends with the self condemnation of Paul saying that he is wretched because he cannot do what he wills is the good. the law of sin and death in his members drags him down. And as a result he has SELF condemnation of feeling wretched.
"Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death." (7:24)
Surely the sinner is Justified from eternal judgment by the death of Christ earlier in the book. Here in chapters 7 and 8 the subject is more sanctification. And the freedom from the wretched feeling of self condemnation is because of the liberating power of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
This a bit different from the freedom from God's condemnation because of the redeeming blood, though that certainly is the case too.
"There is now then no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus .. "
And he goes on to tell us WHY. His emphasis is on the power of the Spirit of life to free us here.
" For the law of the Spirit of life has freed me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death. (8:2) "
So begins Romans 8 which has the focus of walking in the Spirit for subjective sanctification more so than justification by the redeeming blood of redemption.
Forgive me but this is so important IMO to see.
We have freedom from God's condemnation in chapters 3,4.
Then we have freedom from self condemnation in chapter 8.
I think this is an important distinction. The latter is more related to our daily living.
12 Jun 18
Originally posted by @sonshipRead the rest of Romans 8, those who are in Christ...doing what?
Let me reply beginning with the second point. Then I would go back to comment on the first point.
... and Jesus in John said that those that don’t believe in Him are condemned already.
That is right according to [b]John 3:18.
[quote] All of us are sinners, but Jesus came to save the lost. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Li ...[text shortened]... ].
I think this is an important distinction. The latter is more related to our daily living.[/b]
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12 Jun 18
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Originally posted by @rajk999
Yet Jesus calls the righteous into the Kingdom.
Jesus brings the overcomers into the kingdom of God in the millennial as a reward. Lot is discribed as a righteous man. yet Lot was a defeated believer in God who ended up living in Sodom and morally drugged by the society to dull his testimony.
"And having reduced to ashes the cities of Sodom and Gamorrah, condemned them to ruin, having set them as an example to those who intend to live an ungodly life,
And rescued RIGHTEOUS Lot, who had been oppressed by the licentious manner of life of the lawless (For that RIGHTEOUS man, who settled down among them, in seeing and hearing tormented his RIGHTEOUS soul day after day.
The Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of trial and how to jeep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment." (2 Peter 2:6-9)
Lot because he was a believer in God was on a righteous position and was called righteous. But he was not an overcomer as Abraham was. He was a defeated righteous man. He was a defeated godly man, not unrighteous in his position but backslidden in his daily spiritual walk.
Among the saved who are not to be eternally condemned there are the overcomers who are rewarded to enter into the kingdom in its future manifestation. And there are the defeated who lose that reward yet are still eternally redeemed - saved.
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"If anyone's which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward.
If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:14,15)
To be eternally saved is guaranteed to the Christian today.
To be rewarded is still pending to be decided at the judgment seat of Christ for the saved.
Those who do good works are the sheep who get eternal life
As seen above ALL the believers are sheep and all receive the salvation which they are assured.
But the overcoming ones receive the reward if co-reigning with Christ in the millennial kingdom. That is not assured upon believing. That is still pending to be decided at the judgment seat of Christ.
Your teaching that those not rewarded are not sheep is wrong. All who are follow to believe into Jesus Christ the Good Shepherd are by nature sheep.
The overcoming ones who rise up to the standard of normaluty are sheep.
The defeated who are below the standard by a neglect of His indwelling grace are still also sheep.
Your teaching that there will be no sheep who lose the reward is wrong.
" ... he will suffer loss, BUT ... he himself will be saved yet so as through fire."
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I am a sheep.
Are you Rajk999 a sheep or are not a sheep.
Or don't you know?
I am a saved sheep. That is assured.
But am I to be rewarded or to suffer loss when the kingdom is manifested in the millennium?? That I am not assured of. THAT is still pending to be decided when I come before Christ's judgment seat for saved believers.
Judgment begins at the house of God. (1 Pet. 4:17)
12 Jun 18
Originally posted by @kellyjaySince God doesn't care about our moral qualities when he decides who gets into heaven, I wonder why rational people would want to get into heaven. To escape hellfire? That's the best pitch?
Here’s the thing in Romans we are told there’s no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, and Jesus in John said that those that don’t believe in Him are condemned already. All of us are sinners, but Jesus came to save the lost. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life no comes to the Father except through Him. If we do not go to Him making Him our Lord and Sav ...[text shortened]... e will not receive His Spirit thus not be able to do the works He has for us, and not belong to Him.
What if the bible is lying about the nature of hell?
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12 Jun 18
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Regardless in what various forms and guises Rajk999 fights against truth he cannot overthrow it.
SAVED eternally is assured in the church age.
REWARDED is still pending to be decided after the second coming of Christ.
It is so clearly seen here.
"If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."
Am I teaching this way to ENCOURAGE Christians to go on living as they did in the old sinful way. Absolutely not.
I am countering Rajk999's heresy assaulting the assurance of eternal salvation.
Christian SHOULD be concerned that he lose the reward and suffer loss. Obviously the tone of Paul's warning is that Christian "SHEEP" would be sober how they live on the foundation of Jesus Christ.
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Originally posted by @apathist
Since God doesn't care about our moral qualities when he decides who gets into heaven, I wonder why rational people would [b]want to get into heaven. To escape hellfire? That's the best pitch?
What if the bible is lying about the nature of hell?[/b]
What if the bible is lying about the nature of hell?
You mean your not SURE ???
You're not sure its all poppycock?
Your apathy withering a little ?
12 Jun 18
Originally posted by @apathistYou are not grasping what this all means! In Christ means just that, we are called to repent of our sins, make Him Lord of our Lives, to be filled with His Spirit. An unrepentant heart is not walking in the Spirit, instead they are walking after their flesh, and no one doing that is pleasing God, nor can they!
Since God doesn't care about our moral qualities when he decides who gets into heaven, I wonder why rational people would [b]want to get into heaven. To escape hellfire? That's the best pitch?
What if the bible is lying about the nature of hell?[/b]
We can not get good enough on our own we need Jesus!
12 Jun 18
Originally posted by @sonshipJesus will judge who are the sheep and who are the goats:
I am a sheep.
Are you Rajk999 a sheep or are not a sheep.
Or don't you know?
I am a saved sheep. That is assured.
But am I to be rewarded or to suffer loss when the kingdom is manifested in the millennium?? That I am not assured of. THAT is still pending to be decided when I come before Christ's judgment seat for saved believers.
Judgment begins at the house of God. [b](1 Pet. 4:17) [/b]
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,
neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
(John 10:27-28 KJV)
You do not preach that people must follow Christ neither do you preach his doctrine, chief of which is to follow his commandments. Mouth worshipers are not sheep of Christ. These are the sheep .. they do good works and they enter the Kingdom of God
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. (Matthew 25:33-36 KJV)
Righteousness and good works get you into the Kingdom.
Talkers, goats and mouth worshipers are cast out.
Jesus will judge. Paul said to leave it to Christ and to judge nothing :
For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God. (1 Corinthians 4:4-5 KJV)
Wait until Jesus returns. You need to be patient and continue with good works and righteousness.
12 Jun 18
Originally posted by @sonshipDeceitfully omitting the part about sinful Christians being destroyed again sonship? You have no shame.
Regardless in what various forms and guises Rajk999 fights against truth he cannot overthrow it.
SAVED eternally is assured in the church age.
REWARDED is still pending to be decided after the second coming of Christ.
It is so clearly seen here.
[quote] [b] "If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so ...[text shortened]... arning is that Christian "SHEEP" would be sober how they live on the foundation of Jesus Christ.
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. (1 Corinthians 3:17 KJV)
Christians who continue with a life of sin and who defile themselves will be destroyed
Again Paul said clearly that Christian saints who sin will not inherit the Kingdom of God
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
(Ephesians 5:5 KJV)
And you are a sheep? You are lying conniving crooked goat..
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Originally posted by @rajk999I am a sheep. The glory and the thanks go to Jesus Christ.
And you are a sheep? You are lying conniving crooked goat..[/b]
I am a sheep in the hands of the Good Shepherd, I am sorry that you have to resent me because I by His grace take the promise of God.
Are you a sheep?
Do you think I want you to answer No?
I long that you would answer in the AFFIRMATIVE,
I would that you, like many of us, have the assurance that we indeed are sheep in the hand of the Father and of the Son.
Now concerning REWARD of the kingdom to come?
That is still pending.
Concerning that I do not YET know if I will be rewarded.
But I do know that I am a sheep in the powerful and loving hand of the Father and the Son.
Don't you ?
Watch this.
SecondSon, are you a SHEEP ?
Romans1009, are you a SHEEP ?
Dj2becker, what about you? Are you a SHEEP ?
KellyJay, aren't you a SHEEP ?
Suzianne, are YOU a SHEEP ?
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12 Jun 18
1 edit
Originally posted by @sonship
Don't you ?
Watch this.
SecondSon, are you a SHEEP ?
Romans1009, are you a SHEEP ?
Dj2becker, what about you? Are you a SHEEP ?
KellyJay, aren't you a SHEEP ?
Suzianne, are YOU a SHEEP ?
I can't be the only saint here who has the peace to confess that I hear His voice, follow the Good Shepherd and am one of the SHEEP in His hand.
Saints?
Originally posted by @sonshipI dont think they are reading your post.
I am a sheep. The glory and the thanks go to Jesus Christ.
I am a sheep in the hands of the Good Shepherd, I am sorry that you have to resent me because I by His grace take the promise of God.
Are you a sheep?
Do you think I want you to answer No?
I long that you would answer in the AFFIRMATIVE,
I would that you, like many of us, have the assura ...[text shortened]... u[/i] a SHEEP ?
[b]KellyJay, aren't you a SHEEP ?
Suzianne, are YOU a SHEEP ?[/b]