1. Melbourne, Australia
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    08 Oct '12 15:57
    "Like a flawless crystal statue, our immaculate nature,
    stainless, translucent, is pure being;
    it may appear as earth, water, fire, air and space,
    and to the unrealized intellect it may seem concrete,
    but nothing substantiated is there, only the light of awareness.

    Like a rainbow shining in the sky
    having no existence separate from the sky,
    located in space and thus indivisible from space,
    in actuality, pure being is indivisible from reality,
    the light of awareness arising, appearing and shining by itself,
    appearing distinctly and inexorably brilliant;
    unthinking awareness of light is pure being;
    its intrinsic self-display is the enjoyment of timeless awakening;
    and polarity resolved, compassion is magical emanation"

    a quote from "The Sphere of Total Illumination", a Tibetan Dzogchen tantra.

    Tibetan Dzogchen Buddhism is the form of Buddhism the Dalai Lama practices and teaches.
  2. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
    Joined
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    08 Oct '12 16:07
    Originally posted by Taoman
    "Like a flawless crystal statue, our immaculate nature,
    stainless, translucent, is pure being;
    it may appear as earth, water, fire, air and space,
    and to the unrealized intellect it may seem concrete,
    but nothing substantiated is there, only the light of awareness.

    Like a rainbow shining in the sky
    having no existence separate from the sky,
    located i ...[text shortened]...

    Tibetan Dzogchen Buddhism is the form of Buddhism the Dalai Lama practices and teaches.
    Are they talking about what they perceive as the next plane of existence for humans or humans who have reached some kind of transcendence? Are they claiming humans have done this transcendence?
  3. Melbourne, Australia
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    09 Oct '12 05:203 edits
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Are they talking about what they perceive as the next plane of existence for humans or humans who have reached some kind of transcendence? Are they claiming humans have done this transcendence?
    From this primary Buddhist perspective (approached differently in the Zen path, but the same understanding is being pointed to), all form at every level is dependent on an unborn mind-like awareness matrix (of formless nature) from which every duality, physical or mental, arises. This is the light that enables all phenomena and all experience of phenomena.

    To try and seek transcendence is counterproductive, because the transcendence is inherent in everything and every moment right now. To look for it elsewhere is to be distracted and diverted from where it is - here, in whatever is happening of any sort, right now.

    One difficulty people find is that this apparently, and does include all the bad as well as the good. But both sides of any polarity that is manifesting before us and within us require first the light of awareness to be in contact with that emergence of mental or physical phenomena, any emergence Buddhism sees as dependent on many other aspects, never self existing of itself, including what we see as "bad" at that moment.

    But also this greater awareness, when we are simply open to it, brings all polarities out of a dual view into a non-dual space, of what is referred to as one of bliss and with a certain magic like quality that, somehow, spontaneously effects all in the moment. The vision of this is something that can happen spontaneously within us. It can also lessen and return at other times.

    This "bringing together" is equated with compassion and is seen as a quality that arises also spontaneously, "of itself". Other Dzogchen writings include the statement that the "antidote is in the poison". From the light of awareness, which is described also as a mirror reflecting all that appears within it, spontaneously and mysteriously manifests a transcending, wisdom-enabling, transforming compassion.

    Not all at once. But each moment of full, relaxed, accepting, open awareness by our selves is enabling this "treasure" in our ourselves and every manifestation. All our decisions and actions in daily life (with this non-interfering openness) will be overtly no different immediately (usually), except they will be somehow over time be more apt, more effective and more fulfilling.

    It is thus described as "Perfect" in the sense of being utterly complete, resolving all within its spontaneous ever-ongoing flow from moment to moment, in every now.

    You may have wanted something simpler, but I went with the flow. I hope I have not compounded things.

    Thanks, sonhouse.
  4. Melbourne, Australia
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    13 Oct '12 15:37
    Awareness is not something that is apart from that which appears.
    Thus includes all that passes before and within.

    That objective other "thing", is reliant totally on your awareness to manifest.

    Without your awareness it would never be - and everything else.
    Yet awareness would never be without the arising object of its focus.

    Where does one start and the other end?
  5. SubscriberSuzianne
    Misfit Queen
    Isle of Misfit Toys
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    13 Oct '12 16:55
    Originally posted by Taoman
    "Like a flawless crystal statue, our immaculate nature,
    stainless, translucent, is pure being;
    it may appear as earth, water, fire, air and space,
    and to the unrealized intellect it may seem concrete,
    but nothing substantiated is there, only the light of awareness.

    Like a rainbow shining in the sky
    having no existence separate from the sky,
    located i ...[text shortened]...

    Tibetan Dzogchen Buddhism is the form of Buddhism the Dalai Lama practices and teaches.
    "Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
    Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
    To the last syllable of recorded time;
    And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
    The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
    Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
    That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
    And then is heard no more. It is a tale
    Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury
    Signifying nothing." -- Macbeth, William Shakespeare

    I've described it before in this forum as "mental masturbation". It describes nothing and does nothing for the soul. The quintessential non-religion, although one might also consider it as a "religion of the self". Might as well play Sudoku.
  6. Joined
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    13 Oct '12 17:33
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Might as well play Sudoku.
    that can be very enlightening.
  7. Joined
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    6788
    13 Oct '12 17:39
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    "Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
    Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
    To the last syllable of recorded time;
    And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
    The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
    Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
    That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
    And then is heard no more. It is a tale
    Told by an ...[text shortened]... ough one might also consider it as a "religion of the self". Might as well play Sudoku.
    Before enlightenment, play Sudoku...
  8. Melbourne, Australia
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    13 Oct '12 18:032 edits
    We are playing it already. Words never give the experienced meaning of the game of living, anymore than numbers are sudoku itself.

    Awareness is the final definition of every thing and every event.

    If all is the one thing arising in awareness, right now every post on here will probably have a slightly different 'take and leave' from each one's perspective.

    Your leaving of it is as pure an act of awareness as another rejoicing at finding truth therein.

    We can get stuck on content, Here we are attending to the potent space where the content arises or is displayed, as if by a real-making light.

    This light is shining in each sentient conjunction, conjunctions with endless wonder.
  9. SubscriberSuzianne
    Misfit Queen
    Isle of Misfit Toys
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    13 Oct '12 20:111 edit
    Originally posted by Taoman
    We are playing it already. Words never give the experienced meaning of the game of living, anymore than numbers are sudoku itself.

    Awareness is the final definition of every thing and every event.

    If all is the one thing arising in awareness, right now every post on here will probably have a slightly different 'take and leave' from each one's perspect ...[text shortened]... ght.

    This light is shining in each sentient conjunction, conjunctions with endless wonder.
    viv a vis my mention above of "mental masturbation"...

    suddenly I feel dirty. ewwwww.


    "awareness" means nothing if you do not "grok" the message.
  10. Melbourne, Australia
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    14 Oct '12 00:52
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    viv a vis my mention above of "mental masturbation"...

    suddenly I feel dirty. ewwwww.


    "awareness" means nothing if you do not "grok" the message.
    Thus, you reveal your awareness space. In my awareness space, sex is not dirty, but a natural procreative and enjoyment aspect of life.

    Your painting is both limited and lacking in refinement.
  11. Joined
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    14 Oct '12 06:58
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Awareness is not something that is apart from that which appears. Thus includes all that passes before and within. That objective other "thing", is reliant totally on your awareness to manifest. Without your awareness it would never be - and everything else. Yet awareness would never be without the arising object of its focus. Where does one start and the other end?
    I am aware that this doesn't mean anything at all.
  12. Melbourne, Australia
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    14 Oct '12 08:45
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I am aware that this doesn't mean anything at all.
    All meanings arise in the mind;
    from where does mind arise?
    As soon as you start to explain
    you are back with meanings again.

    Best to go and enjoy the awareness of a cold beer. 😉
  13. Joined
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    86307
    14 Oct '12 08:59
    Originally posted by Taoman
    All meanings arise in the mind;
    from where does mind arise?
    As soon as you start to explain
    you are back with meanings again.

    Best to go and enjoy the awareness of a cold beer. 😉
    I'm just being honest and frank; it means nothing to me. That is not to say it has no meaning to you or others, but collectively it makes no sense – delivers no cognitive traction. Pretending it does is just lying to oneself.
  14. Standard memberblack beetle
    Black Beastie
    Scheveningen
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    14 Oct '12 09:57
    Originally posted by Taoman
    All meanings arise in the mind;
    from where does mind arise?
    As soon as you start to explain
    you are back with meanings again.

    Best to go and enjoy the awareness of a cold beer. 😉
    A Buddha is obscured by defilments, defilements removed bring up a Buddha; one's own entanglement with all meanings that arise, brings up adventitious defilements.
    From where does mind arise? Ask a question without asking and see what you 'll get
    😵
  15. Melbourne, Australia
    Joined
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    7680
    14 Oct '12 12:43
    Originally posted by black beetle
    A Buddha is obscured by defilments, defilements removed bring up a Buddha; one's own entanglement with all meanings that arise, brings up adventitious defilements.
    From where does mind arise? Ask a question without asking and see what you 'll get
    😵
    Greetings EB.

    Discriminating purity and defilements - is this not a constant asking of questions?

    From another I also look too:

    "In the ultimate definitive analysis
    just as golden chains and hempen ropes are equally blinding,
    so the sacred and the profane do both enslave us;
    and just as white and black clouds are equally enshrouding,
    so virtue and vice alike veil gnosis:
    the yogin or yogini who understands that
    fosters release from moral conditioning."

    from "Longchempa's Treasury of Natural Perfection"

    Is "acting without acting" always perfect, or never perfect, EB?

    Is silence better than confused shouting, or are they the same? Always or sometimes?

    Or is it "No questions - No answers - Have another cup of tea"?

    I consider my questions to EB carefully, for I value his answers.

    Thank you.
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