The Origin of Biblical Literalism

Originally posted by sonship
Relating [b]John 8 to Revelation and [/b]Romans[/b] is exactly appropriate.

The "house" that Jesus says He abides in forever is the same house or temple that closes the pages of the Bible.

And the house is built with transformed children of God.
And transformed sons of God relates exactly to Romans.

[quote] "And ...[text shortened]... me up with another expression - "ThinkofOne while he walked away from 80% of the New Testament."

Well, you've made it clear that you don't take the text I quoted from John 8 "at face value" - your claim to the contrary notwithstanding.

You've also made it clear that you don't really care what Jesus actually said or didn't say. Instead you attempt to make it fit a theology based on the words other than what Jesus said in John 8.

Any chance that you'll actually address the following?

This is how you take the text from John 8 at face value:

"34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin."
--Those who commit sin are slaves.

" 31 ...If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
--Those who are true disciples of Jesus are freed from the slavery of committing sin and are no longer slaves.

"36So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. "
--Jesus reemphasizes that his true disciples are indeed made free from committing sin.

" 35The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
51Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”
--Those who continue to commit sin will not have eternal life. Those who no longer commit sin will have eternal life.

"He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Well, you've made it clear that you don't take the text I quoted from John 8 "at face value" - your claim to the contrary notwithstanding.

You've also made it clear that you don't really care what Jesus actually said or didn't say. Instead you attempt to make it fit a theology based on the words other than what Jesus said in John 8.

Any chance that ...[text shortened]... onger commit sin will have eternal life.
[/quote]

"He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

Do you know God?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
The following is an interesting take on this topic. The idea that it is a PRODUCT of the scientific method is intriguing. The article brings up some interesting points and should be read in full.

Thoughts?

[b]The heresy of literalism as such is a modern, post-scientific phenomenon. Its beginnings can be traced in seventeenth-century Protest ...[text shortened]... constriction of the inspiring Word.

http://people.cas.sc.edu/lewiske/heresy.html

[/b]

I've never thought of science as being opposed to God but rather confirming Him. If we believe that our God created us, then all that we are, and all that true science has to offer will only lead us in His direction.

God didn't create us to be robots. We have minds, feelings, and experience things that seemingly can not be explained.

The statements of the Episcopalian theologian are unfortunate. I've never thought of my brothers in faith to be bastard children or deformed because they don't think as i do.

When Jesus pointed out that the Pharesess were following the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law. He didn't condemn them for following the letter. He only condemned the fact that the spirit of the law wasn't included. There is merit with both.

Originally posted by sonship
Do you know God?

"You search the Scriptures ... yet you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life."

ToO, with your superior ability to exegete the Scriptures, what has it done for your fellowship with God ? Do you have fellowship in love, intimately with God?

Originally posted by Pudgenik
I've never thought of science as being opposed to God but rather confirming Him. If we believe that our God created us, then all that we are, and all that true science has to offer will only lead us in His direction.

God didn't create us to be robots. We have minds, feelings, and experience things that seemingly can not be explained.

The statements o ...[text shortened]... He only condemned the fact that the spirit of the law wasn't included. There is merit with both.

You don't seem to have understood the OP. I suggest you make another pass at it.

For example:
The statements of the Episcopalian theologian are unfortunate. I've never thought of my brothers in faith to be bastard children or deformed because they don't think as i do.

The Episcopalian theologian is saying that "fundamentalism" - not "fundamentalists" - "is to be regarded as 'the bastard child of science and religion'".

Originally posted by sonship

[b]"You search the Scriptures ... yet you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life."

ToO, with your superior ability to exegete the Scriptures, what has it done for your fellowship with God ? Do you have fellowship in love, intimately with God?[/b]

Listen Jaywill. I understand. A straightforward reading of His words that I've quoted from John 8 is contrary to your theology. As such you don't want to address it, since you'd have to admit that you don't really care what Jesus actually said or didn't say. Instead you essentially put the words of others into His mouth.

Once again:

This is how you take the text from John 8 at face value:

"34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin."
--Those who commit sin are slaves.

" 31 ...If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
--Those who are true disciples of Jesus are freed from the slavery of committing sin and are no longer slaves.

"36So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. "
--Jesus reemphasizes that his true disciples are indeed made free from committing sin.

" 35The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
51Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”
--Those who continue to commit sin will not have eternal life. Those who no longer commit sin will have eternal life.

"He who has ears to hear, let him hear"

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne

Listen Jaywill. I understand. A straightforward reading of His words that I've quoted from John 8 is contrary to your theology. As such you don't want to address it, since you'd have to admit that you don't really care what Jesus actually said or didn't say. Instead you essentially put the words of others into His mouth.

I care what the Lord Jesus said. He set me free from unbelief and doubt.
I am free indeed to love God who is the living God to me.

And I care that a man needs to ask himself "With all this knowledge I have about theology, is God real and living to me?"

i am willing to lose any theological argument on best chapter interpretation if in losing it one alienated still from God could have the joy of knowing God.

What good does it do if God is not REAL to you ?
You may be a expert in homiletic skill and God is not real to you.

A Prayer:

"Lord Jesus. I just surrender to Your love. Lord Jesus, I just open my heart to receive You. I need the thorough cleansing of Your redemption. Wash every sin away from God's rememberance in the precious blood of Your sacrifice for my soul. According to Your own word Lord Jesus, take away my sins that I may have fellowship and communion with God my dear Heavenly Father."

Here's the deal. You want to humble yourself and allow the Lord Jesus to subdue you. Then you will rise, rise, rise.

Humble yourself under the mighty hand of God that He may exalt you in due time.

If you want to know God you should just let the Lord Jesus rise above you as Lord.
Its your favorite passage. If the Son sets you free you shall be free indeed.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
The following is an interesting take on this topic. The idea that it is a PRODUCT of the scientific method is intriguing. The article brings up some interesting points and should be read in full.

Thoughts?

[b]The heresy of literalism as such is a modern, post-scientific phenomenon. Its beginnings can be traced in seventeenth-century Protest ...[text shortened]... constriction of the inspiring Word.

http://people.cas.sc.edu/lewiske/heresy.html

[/b]

It's an interesting idea, but I don't think it really works. When Galileo was on trial for heresy they were taking a pretty pedantic line. I realise that the geocentric theory is not really a Biblical issue, but the fundamentalist approach (either accept everything we say or die) was functioning long before. What they have described is that the fundamentally minded feel the need to dress up their arguments in a scientific fashion. Interpreting things like the Bible in a literal fashion probably correlates better with economics than technical development. I'm sure with some digging I can find literally minded interpretations of the Bible going back to the year dot.

Originally posted by sonship

Listen Jaywill. I understand. A straightforward reading of His words that I've quoted from John 8 is contrary to your theology. As such you don't want to address it, since you'd have to admit that you don't really care what Jesus actually said or didn't say. Instead you essentially put the words of others into His mouth.

I care what the L ...[text shortened]... ove you as Lord.
Its your favorite passage. If the Son sets you free you shall be free indeed.

Once again you've shown that you don't really care what Jesus ACTUALLY said or didn't say. You keep showing that what you care about is your theology and how it makes you feel rather than the truth.

If the God of Jesus were "real" to you, then the "spirit of truth" would be important to you - rather than how you feel. As such, you don't "know" the God of Jesus.

Once again:

This is how you take the text from John 8 at face value:

"34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin."
--Those who commit sin are slaves.

" 31 ...If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
--Those who are true disciples of Jesus are freed from the slavery of committing sin and are no longer slaves.

"36So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. "
--Jesus reemphasizes that his true disciples are indeed made free from committing sin.

" 35The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
51Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”
--Those who continue to commit sin will not have eternal life. Those who no longer commit sin will have eternal life.

"He who has ears to hear, let him hear"

Originally posted by DeepThought
It's an interesting idea, but I don't think it really works. When Galileo was on trial for heresy they were taking a pretty pedantic line. I realise that the geocentric theory is not really a Biblical issue, but the fundamentalist approach (either accept everything we say or die) was functioning long before. What they have described is that the fundam ...[text shortened]... ome digging I can find literally minded interpretations of the Bible going back to the year dot.

If you haven't read the article in its entirety, I suggest you do. You don't seem to have understood the context of what the author is saying. A couple of key phrases are "the heresy of literalism" and "twentieth-century Fundamentalism"

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
If you haven't read the article in its entirety, I suggest you do. You don't seem to have understood the context of what the author is saying. A couple of key phrases are "the heresy of literalism" and "twentieth-century Fundamentalism"

I didn't read the article at all, just your copy and paste. The key phrases I was thinking of are "heresy of literalism" and "twentieth century fundamentalism". I don't agree with them. If I have spare time and inclination I might read it, if I do then I'll come back, but for the mean time I'll stick with stating that I do not think there is anything new about excessive literal mindedness.

Originally posted by DeepThought
I didn't read the article at all, just your copy and paste. The key phrases I was thinking of are "heresy of literalism" and "twentieth century fundamentalism". I don't agree with them. If I have spare time and inclination I might read it, if I do then I'll come back, but for the mean time I'll stick with stating that I do not think there is anything new about excessive literal mindedness.

I didn't read the article at all, just your copy and paste.

Yeah, I didn't think so.

The key phrases I was thinking of are "heresy of literalism" and "twentieth century fundamentalism". I don't agree with them.

Never mind that you don't understand them.

If I have spare time and inclination I might read it, if I do then I'll come back, but for the mean time I'll stick with stating that I do not think there is anything new about excessive literal mindedness.

Perhaps then you'll be able to make a comment on what the author was actually saying.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Once again you've shown that you don't really care what Jesus ACTUALLY said or didn't say. You keep showing that what you care about is your theology and how it makes you feel rather than the truth.

If the God of Jesus were "real" to you, then the "spirit of truth" would be important to you - rather than how you feel. As such, you don't "know" the God ...[text shortened]... nger commit sin will have eternal life.
[/quote]
"He who has ears to hear, let him hear"[/b]

Did you ever answer the question of "Do you know God?" ?

That is not "know about God". That is know God - in some personal and subjective way - know the truth - God.

I care about knowing God. If you chose to ignore the question, then I think the one more concerned with your doctrine and theology may be you.

So you ignore the question on experience to bring all talking about to theology and doctrine objectively.

The truth that we shall know which sets free is a Person.
The truth is a living Person (unusual, but real and living).

You don't have to answer me here in public. But ask yourself honestly. Has all your supposed superior method of taking the Bible brought you into any real fellowship with God and a living Person?

If it has not then why not ask God persistently why this is not happened?
Instead of confidently assuming that the Bible will not bring you into touch with God, why not earnestly seek God what is the problem?

I have never met one religious person who could not in SOME degree realize that there were symbols and parables in the Bible.

If anyone can point me to a person or group which takes literally every word in the 66 books of the Bible, put up a link to such person/s.

No one I know fails to realize some things written in the Bible are figures of speech or parables, or symbolism. It just usually just a matter of degrees of such appreciation.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Once again you've shown that you don't really care what Jesus ACTUALLY said or didn't say. You keep showing that what you care about is your theology and how it makes you feel rather than the truth.

If the God of Jesus were "real" to you, then the "spirit of truth" would be important to you - rather than how you feel. As such, you don't "know" the God ...[text shortened]... nger commit sin will have eternal life.
[/quote]
"He who has ears to hear, let him hear"[/b]

--Those who continue to commit sin will not have eternal life. Those who no longer commit sin will have eternal life.

So?
What else do you think Christ's salvation is except to free man from both the guilt and the power of sin?

Huge "DUH!"

If you weren't so busy trying to drive an artificial barrier between Christ and His apostle you would realize that this is exactly what the Apostle Paul taught - freedom the guilt and power of sin.

Some have ears to hear and hear not.
Some have eyes to see and see not.

What do you see and hear?

"But if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled." (Rom. 5:10)

As to the past - Reconciled.
As to the present and the future - "much more will be saved in His life".