1. Standard membersonship
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    06 Apr '15 00:561 edit
    I am not going to do a lot of arguing in this Thread.
    I am going to state some things about Matthew 25:1-13 which have been a help to my Christian life for many years.

    Its a public forum. If someone wants to pull in another direction, they have that right. I won't take a lot of time to debate. I mean I won't take a lot of ad infinitum time to defend things not intrinsically related to the passage's teaching.

    I think there may be some things here good for some considering to become believers in Christ.


    At that time the kingdom of the heavens will be likened to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were foolish and five were prudent. For the foolish, when they took their lamps, did not take oil with them; But the prudent took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

    And while the bridegroom delayed, they all became drowsy and slept. But at midnight there was a cry, Behold, the bridegroom! Go forth to meet him! Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their own lamps. And the foolish said to the prudent, Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out. But the prudent answered, saying, Perhaps there will not be enough for us and for you; go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.

    And as they were going away to buy, the bridegroom came; and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast. And the door was shut. And later the rest of the virgins came also, saying, Lord, lord, open to us! But he answered and said, Truly I say to ou, I do not know you.

    Watch therefore, for you do not know the day nor the hour. (Matthew 25:1-13 Recovery Version )
  2. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    06 Apr '15 01:09
    I am reminded to dip my wick often.
  3. Standard membersonship
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    06 Apr '15 01:102 edits
    What is the end purpose of the parable ? That is clearly seen in the verse at its conclusion, verse 13:

    "Watch therefore, for you do not know the day nor the hour."

    The day and hour relates to the second coming of Christ.
    Since the disciples do not know its date they have to supplement their ignorance with prudence and diligence in wisdom.

    It is hard to take a "crash course" suddenly in prudence, diligence, and wisdom. It is better to little by little DAILY build up the habit of things like this.

    The event looked forward to is the surprise and unexpected arrival of Christ as the Bridegroom.

    This teaching focuses on Christ coming as, an in love, romantic, eager bachelor seeking a bride for love and pleasant partnership, romance and mutual happiness.

    Does this mean this is the only aspect of Christ. It means that this parable has its particular focus on this aspect of Jesus Christ. He is the Lover coming for marriage with a collective beautiful counterpart.

    The teaching as about how the lovers of Christ should be prepared to meet Him in this particular aspect.

    Christ is a also a Judge, a General, a Savior, a King, a Great Physician. This particular parable does not have those focuses so much as His coming as a Lover, a pleasant Bridegroom.

    Who could be more friendly and lovable than a bridegroom?

    There are some aspects of Christ's coming which are fearsome to some. But this parable is about His coming as a Bridegroom for marriage.

    "At that time the kingdom of the heavens will be likened to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went forth to meet the bridegroom." (v1)
  4. Standard membersonship
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    06 Apr '15 01:311 edit
    The virgins are the believers in Christ. From the aspect of their spiritual life they are virgins (really a collective virgin) yet individually virgins presented chase, dedicated, consecrated for their Lord the Son of God.

    Paul wrote: "For I am jealous over you with a jealousy of God; for I betrothed you to one husband to present you as a pure virgin to Christ." ( 2 Cor. 11:2)

    The church in Corinth consisted of believers presented by the apostle to Christ as a corporate pure virgin to Christ.

    I said that the prudence and wisdom taught in this parable is not able to be obtained quickly as in a crash course. We who want to have a relationship with Christ should daily tell Him that we love Him.

    If you don't feel that you love Jesus in this way, you can get from that coldness to a warmer one, by telling Him that He loves you. If you remind the Lord of how much He loves you, dying for you, coming to give His life on Calvary to save you, you will tell Him what HE knows, but YOU need to remember.

    We love Him because He first loved us. If you thank and remind the Lord Jesus how He loved you, it won't be long that you will be telling Him the you also love Him.

    Sometimes you just have to say the facts. "Lord Jesus, I know that you LOVE me. I don't know WHY You love me. But I know that You love me. I want to take a moment and just say Thankyou Lord Jesus."

    Christ is coming for a collective and aggregate "Bride". Yet because He is God-man, it is also intimately personal on an individual level. As Paul said -

    " ... the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me." (Gal. 2:20)

    If we speak out the truth that "He [the Son of God] loved me, and gave Himself up for me" soon we will find that we love Him too. This parable is about Christ coming for His lovers. They don't wait to the last second to decide Christ is more lovable that anything the world or religion can possibly offer them.

    Daily, even more than once a day, as much capacity as one has, we tell Him that we love Him.

    "Did you tell the Lord Jesus today that you loved Him?" we can ask ourselves.
  5. Standard membersonship
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    06 Apr '15 01:412 edits
    "At that time the kingdom of the heavens will be likened to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went forth the meet the bridegroom."

    The Christian's whole life as a believers should have the flavor of her or him going forth to meet the Lover - the one whom we saved will marry for eternity.

    The parable just before this one stresses readiness as serving servants (Matt. 24:45-51) . Because the Teacher Jesus and the New Testament is balanced, giving attention to more than one ANGLE of a matter, the emphasis of 13:1-13 is not on service but on LOVE.

    Previously, in the immediately preceding verses Jesus spoke of prudence in SERVICE and the way the SERVANT should behave. Now He turns to something of the LOVE of the believer towards Himself.

    " .... ten virgins, who took their lamps and went forth to meet the bridegroom."

    Now we have to talk about three items of the parable:

    1.) lamps
    2.) the vessels with the lamps
    3.) oil

    "For the foolish, when they took their lamps, did not take oil with them;
    But the prudent took oil in their vessels with their lamps." (v.3,4)


    Without paying attention to the meaning of these three matters it is difficult to get into what this parable is saying.


    Then we also have to see the significance of the number 10 divided up into 5 and 5.

    [b]"And five of them were foolish and five were wise." (v.2)
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    06 Apr '15 01:42
    Originally posted by sonship
    The [b]virgins are the believers in Christ. From the aspect of their spiritual life they are virgins (really a collective virgin) yet individually virgins presented chase, dedicated, consecrated for their Lord the Son of God.

    Paul wrote: "For I am jealous over you with a jealousy of God; for I betrothed you to one husband to present you as a pure ...[text shortened]... we love Him.

    "Did you tell the Lord Jesus today that you loved Him?" we can ask ourselves.
    Nicely put sonship!
  7. Standard membersonship
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    06 Apr '15 01:49
    Originally posted by yoctobyte
    Nicely put sonship!
    Amen. This particular parable is about the LOVE of the disciples in their life long motivation of going forth to meet the coming bridegroom.

    From the time the sinner believes in Jesus, she or he is "going forth". We simply are on our Exodus out of this age. We are in the world. But we are going FORTH to meet Jesus Christ.

    He is coming with a kingdom. But this parable does not emphasize as much His kingship as His loving and pleasant personality as a Bridegroom for love.

    Some simply cannot get it that He wants love. He loved us. He loved us to the uttermost. He poured out His life on the cross because of love for us.

    As God/man it is universal yet personal. He loved ME and gave Himself for ME.

    Only God become a man could do this. He is so attractive and so lovely that day after day, while we are fulfilling our legitimate earthly duties we are really "going forth" to meet the Lover, the Ultimate Lover, the Son of God Who wants to marry us.

    God USES these pictures to communicate in terms we can understand. He loves us. He wants us now and wants us unto eternity as a counterpart, as a romantic collective Bride City.
  8. Standard membersonship
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    06 Apr '15 02:111 edit
    Believers in Jesus, who in Matthew are kingdom people, are like chaste virgins. As virgins they bear the testimony (the lamp) in the dark age. The lamp is the innermost part of the regenerated human being.

    The spirit of man is the lamp of the Lord.
    Proverbs 20:27 -

    Recovery Version
    The spirit of man is the lamp of Jehovah, searching all the innermost parts of the inner being.

    International Standard Version
    A person's spirit is the lamp of the LORD; it searches throughout one's innermost being.

    NET Bible
    The human spirit is like the lamp of the LORD, searching all his innermost parts.




    The lamp of the Lord God is the human spirit of man. When a man believes into Jesus Christ, the lamp of the Lord is lite. And it begins to illuminate all the inward parts of the man's soul and heart.

    This is a gradual illumination. This is the lamp of God being lite by being born again. And this lamp of God shines the divine light on all the innermost parts of the inner being.

    That is not all at once. That is as a life long process of growing. Anyway this regenerated human spirit is also the testimony borne by the believer in the dark night of this age.

    The Bridegroom comes, as we shall see, at "midnight" . This is the darkest time of this present age. When things are darkest. We do not know HOW much darker than can get.

    We do know that if we believe into Jesus we bear a testimony in lieu of our human spirit being enlivened. The comotose and deadened spirit of the sinner becomes the lighted "lamp of Jehovah" .


    It is important to see at this point that ALL the virgins had lighted lamps.
    They all BEGAN with lighted lamps.

    This means whether they were wise or foolish they were all born again.

    That the ten were divided up into two groups - five foolish and five wise, does not mean half the Christians are foolish and half are wise. Rather it means that the RESPONSIBILITY of whether we will be wise or foolish AFTER being born again, is up to us.

    Five is a number signifying responsibility. Once you get saved you are responsible. You are not responsible for being justified by any works which you can do. But you are responsible in your going forth to meet the One Who died for you.

    The choice of whether I will be wise or foolish is up to me. It is up to me in a daily way. It is foolish to wait to the last moment to decide to be wise. It is prudent to gain a daily habit of being prudent about one's testimony. Being prudent about one's regenerated human spirit is up to the believers.

    We may ask on one hand "Did I tell the Lord Jesus I loved Him today?" And on the other hand we may ask " Do I decide to act wisely about my regenerated spirit today or be foolish?"

    The believer knows that he has something that the world never gave him. He knows that he has something that the world neither can take away - the born again human spirit.

    But he or her herself needs to consider to either develop prudence and wisdom or neglect unto foolishness and naivete.

    The lamp is the human spirit regenerated, born anew, re-born through joining to the Lord Jesus Christ.
  9. Standard membersonship
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    06 Apr '15 02:262 edits
    "And five of them were foolish and five were wise."

    Five is the number signifying man's responsibility. It is arrived at by 1 + 4.

    The number 1 stands for the unique God.
    The number 4 stands for the creation of God.

    Then number 5 being 1 + 4 (or 4 + 1) means God added to man in order to bear responsibility.

    Five virgins are saved yet foolish.
    Five virgins are saved and wise.

    If you are a Christian, the responsibility of whether you will be wise or foolish is on you. God is there to help. You can do nothing alone without God for His kingdom - just 4 by itself. But with God, with 1 + 4, you can bear what responsibility God has apportioned to you as His creation.

    The meaning is not that HALF the church is foolish and HALF the church is wise. The meaning here is the responsibility as to what we would be is on us. Each Christian must consider how she or he is going forth the meet the coming Bridegroom the Son of God.

    Now we will go on to see what makes the wise wise and the foolish foolish.

    But first it must be seen that ALL the virgins grew drowsy and fell asleep as the Bridegroom tarried and delayed his coming.

    This probably signifies that the first disciples and many disciples EXPECTED Jesus to return relatively soon. Not because He delayed year after year they died. The grow drowsy and fell asleep.

    This means that the delay of Jesus from coming was not immediate and many Christians grew old and died. For the Christian physical death is just like going to sleep in the NT.

    Though the drowsy and sleepy matter probably relates to Christians of the past dying while waiting for the Bridegroom to return, still there is a lesson here for those who are physically alive when He returns.

    The principle of being prudent or being foolish applies regardless. No Christian should feel exempt from the lesson of the parable just because they are alive now and even expect Jesus to come in their lifetime.

    But He does come at the darkest hour -

    "And while the bridegroom delayed, they became drowsy and slept. But at midnight there was a cry, Behold, the bridegroom! Go forth to meet him." (v.6)
  10. Standard membersonship
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    06 Apr '15 03:021 edit
    The lamp of the virgins is the human spirit.
    The vessel taken with the lamp is the human soul.
    The oil is the Holy Spirit which is the Third Person of the Triune God.


    All the Christians have the Holy Spirit within their human spirit.
    "He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" ( 1 Cor. 6:17)

    To be born again is to RECEIVE the Holy Spirit INTO your human spirit.
    To be born again is to invite the Spirit of Jesus Christ Who is the Spirit of God today, INTO your innermost kernel, innermost nucleus of your spiritual being.

    The comatose human spirit become lite. BANG - Jesus Christ in the form of the Holy Spirit ENTERS into your life. Exceedingly true and exceedingly subjective.

    NOT exceedingly subjective SO not TRUE.

    Rather Exceedingly subjective, experiential, intimate AND .... AND exceedingly TRUE too.

    All the five virgins had Jesus Christ living in them.

    The VESSEL taken WITH the lamp is not the innermost human spirit. The vessel is the SOUL of man. The vessel is the personality. The vessel includes the mind, the emotion, the will.

    The foolish had the Holy Spirit in their human spirit.
    The wise ALSO had the Holy Spirit in their human spirit.

    So what is the difference?

    The FOOLISH had only that initial oil given in regeneration.
    The WISE had "extra oil" or the Holy Spirit infused into their soul, their personality.

    Wise = Born Again plus transformation of the personality, the soul.

    Foolish = Born Again but neglectful of transformation of the personality, the soul.

    The foolish deemed it UNNECESSARY to have EXTRA oil with the lamp.
    The wise deemed it appropriate to have EXTRA oil in their vessels WITH their lamps.

    "For the foolish, when they took their lamps, did not take oil with them.

    But the prudent took oil in their vessels with their lamps." (3,4).
  11. Standard membersonship
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    06 Apr '15 03:033 edits
    They all were saved.
    They all were virgins unto the Lord Jesus.
    They all have the matter of eternal redemption settled in the affirmative FOREVER.

    Though in their going forth from one age to the next age meeting the coming Bridegroom, there was a difference.

    Some had only the initial Holy Spirit given at regeneration yet no spreading of the Spirit into their personality. Maybe they assumed that all that was needed was to be saved by being born again. Maybe they considered that they had their "ticket".

    It was foolish to assume that this would be met by the coming Lover, the Bridegroom, with pleasure.

    The WISE somehow grasped that though they were redeemed, saved, justified for ever and ever, YET the coming Bridegroom is coming for them as transformed, Holy Spirit permeated in soul, Holy Spirit soaked in their personality. They stored up with the precious Holy Spirit in the SOUL in addition to regenerated in the spirit.

    The former is a GIFT.
    The latter involves paying some price.

    "And the foolish said to the prudent, Give us some of your oil for our lamps are going out. But the prudent answered, saying, Perhaps there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves." (v.9)

    Wisdom pays off. Foolishness eventually comes to a terminal end point.

    Wisdom is ready to go into the celebration.
    Foolishness wakes up and realizes that there is a shortage.

    "And five of them were foolish and five of them were prudent. For the foolish, when they took their lamps, did not take oil with them. But the prudent took oil in their vessels with their lamps."

    We can see that they ALL had some burning oil initially -

    "And the foolish said to the prudent ... our lamps are going out."

    They could not be going out unless they had been filled with burning oil.
    They all therefore had the Holy Spirit.

    It is not that the wise were not true Christians and the foolish false Christians. They all were saved believers of Christ.

    They ALL were virgins to the bridegroom.
    They ALL had the Holy Spirit as the oil in their lamps.

    The foolish considered it foolish or unnecessary to be encumbered with "extra oil" in the vessel. The wise grasped that they should have not only the initial oil but extra oil in the vessel along with the lamp.

    The lamp is the spirit of man.
    The vessel is the soul of man.

    The going out of the lamp of the foolish does not mean they are losing the Holy Spirit. But it does signify that the testimony is lacking and deficient. When the Bridegroom arrives some virgins realize that they were foolish to presumptuously think they could appear for the celebration of Christ's marriage feast without the extra Spirit of Christ infused into their soul as in transformation.
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    06 Apr '15 06:57
    Originally posted by sonship
    What is the end purpose of the parable ? That is clearly seen in the verse at its conclusion, verse 13:

    "Watch therefore, for you do not know the day nor the hour."

    The day and hour relates to the second coming of Christ.
    So all the Christians that have died in the last 2000 years that heeded that parable, carried around extra oil in vain. The bridegroom never came and they died virgins.
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    06 Apr '15 07:11
    Originally posted by sonship
    The event looked forward to is the surprise and unexpected arrival of Christ as the Bridegroom.

    There are some aspects of Christ's coming which are fearsome to some. But this parable is about His coming as a Bridegroom for marriage.
    😲

    As a heterosexual man, this from a god who's not too opposed to rape practices, I can tell you, I'm not thrilled about his coming (dirty pun intended).

    There are times when I'm really glad it's all make-believe.
  14. Standard memberfinnegan
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    06 Apr '15 09:02
    Originally posted by sonship
    I am not going to do a lot of arguing in this Thread.
    I am going to state some things about [b]Matthew 25:1-13
    which have been a help to my Christian life for many years.

    Its a public forum. If someone wants to pull in another direction, they have that right. I won't take a lot of time to debate. I mean I won't take a lot of ad infinitum ...[text shortened]... for you do not know the day nor the hour. (Matthew 25:1-13 Recovery Version ) [/quote][/b]
    24 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

    3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

    4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumours of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed.


    Matthew 25 arises in response to 24, and its key passage IN CONTEXT is its closing phrase: “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour."

    By all means, on the one hand, be prepared for the end. But at the same time, do not presume to claim you know when that will come. Surely a warning to and about false prophets like those on this forum repeatedly announcing that the end tines are upon us because the US stock market is looking shaky this week. Certainly a useful reminder that the end has been nigh for more than two thousand years at the latest count - and we are still counting.

    And is the parable of the lamps suggesting that people might do something active in the way of preparation for the end times? Or is there not a warning in 24 against those idiot fundamentalists seeking to provoke or to bring forward the end times by pushing some of the stars into alignment, literally provoking and aggravating wars in the cheery hope of fulfilling God's will a bit earlier than He intended???
  15. Standard membersonship
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    06 Apr '15 14:00
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    So all the Christians that have died in the last 2000 years that heeded that parable, carried around extra oil in vain. The bridegroom never came and they died virgins.
    So all the Christians that have died in the last 2000 years that heeded that parable, carried around extra oil in vain. The bridegroom never came and they died virgins.


    The age of eternity does not begin immediately following the second coming of Christ. Between the church age and the eternal age of the new heaven and the new earth is the age of the 1,000 year millennial kingdom.

    In this interim time when Christ takes 1,000 years to reign upon the planet some who have been qualitatively prepared to be co-rulers with Him will be rewarded to share with Him that age.

    "And he who overcomes and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations; And he will shepherd them with an iron rod, as vessels of pottery are broken in pieces, as I also have received from My Father." (Rev. 2:26,27)

    This a reward not for simply being a redeemed believer.
    This is a reward for being a redeemed believer who has overcome some kind of surrounding degradation. This overcoming qualiifies the eternally saved one to co-reign with Jesus Christ during that millennial kingdom age.

    Overcoming is associated with having the extra oil.
    Overcoming is associated with transformation of the soul regeneration of the spirit.

    So BY NO MEANS is the extra oil for which the virgin paid a price, in vain. It is profitible BOTH for the church age AND for the millennial kingdom age before the eternal age.

    To repeat the same thing again, I refer to Revelation 3:21.

    "He who overcomes, to him I will give to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat with My Father on His throne."

    This sitting with Christ on His throne relates to the millennial kingdom of 1,000 years BEFORE the eternal age.

    This is reward not simply for being believing unto justification by faith. It is a reward for believing unto overcoming some kind of surrounding degradation particular to the age of those believers. Being saturated with the Holy Spirit in soul after regeneration helps the redeemed Christian to be an overcoming one.

    Therefore in this instances also any extra oil obtained is profitable both for the age in which the Christian overcame and for the qualification to sit with Christ on a throne as He also overcame to sit on His Father's throne.

    Both examples prove that for the wise virgins to obtain "extra oil" BY NO MEANS can be in vain. To be transformed in the soul after regeneration is always wise and profitable.

    Your question seems to display an eagerness to exploit some allegedly
    unprofitable aspect of the belonging to Christ. The question actually is consistent with the foolishness of the foolish virgins assuming that extra oil is a nuisance to have. "Why bother?"

    The filling of the Holy Spirit in the personality is never unprofitable, futile or vain at any time in this universe or in the endless eternity.

    The Holy Spirit is God Himself.
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