The Pope

@pettytalk said
Obviously we can exclude you, necessarily, since you are the exception when it comes to the all!

“We”??

@pettytalk said
I did not exclude anyone from the whole, when it comes to hypocrisy. Not the pope, and not myself either. If you read it over carefully, you will see it clearly, but only if you come out of hiding.

Is the pope the antichrist? Possibly! But I think you mean to say that the pope does not live by all the teachings of Christ. But as for people who most nearly try to live and ...[text shortened]... o me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edCH7R4uYmQ

There are two perspectives. One is man's flawed perspective, and the other is God's.

The "Church" is privileged to see from God's perspective when it adheres to God's infallible word with regard to the matters of truth in our minds and hearts.

Whether or not every man is a hypocrite to one degree or another is not the question. The question is who is antichrist.

There are many. Can you discern the difference between a true believer and a false one? Only when one acknowledges the truth of God's word can that be done. But not always.

1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

@josephw said

Whether or not every man is a hypocrite to one degree or another is not the question. The question is who is antichrist.

There are many. Can you discern the difference between a true believer and a false one? Only when one acknowledges the truth of God's word can that be done. But not always.

To question what we already know is not the question, because we already know that everyone is a hypocrite.

The question needs to be directed at the degree of being more or less. The true believer on earth is, more or less, not a true believer. A true believer is one who can move a mountain, more or less, with true heavenly faith. And this is how I discern between a true and false believer. The criterion is being able to move mountains, or not being able to move mountains.

Regarding your question on who is the Antichrist, it's also a matter of discernment. However, in this case, the criterion is not being able to tell the difference between the imposter Christ and the real Christ.

God did not make it easy for anyone to differentiate between the two, the imposter and the real.

Any reliable source will tell us, more or less, that the term "Antichrist" in the biblical context does not simply mean that another Christ, pretending to be the real Christ, will come before the true Christ. The term "Antichrist" is derived from the Greek words "anti" meaning "against" or "in place of". It refers to individuals or entities that oppose Jesus Christ and claim to be Christ or substitute themselves in Christ's place before the Second Coming. The "or" makes a difference because if the Antichrist, as written, is to be able to fool the whole world, including the elite, if it will be possible, then the pope, for certain, is not the Antichrist, as you claimed.

If a simple-minded believer, or non-believer, can easily discern any differences from the true Christ described in the Biblical texts, then it's certain that it's not the Antichrist. I'm saying it's simple for a simple-minded person to discern the ordinary average believer from the Biblical "elite" scholars. If it's possible to deceive even the elite/elect, then they too will be deceived, since everything is possible when it concerns God.

I'm using the rich man and the camel story to borrow the statement that everything is possible for God, including making it possible to deceive even the 'elect.'

Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?”

Jesus replied, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”

@pettytalk said
I'm using the rich man and the camel story to borrow the statement that everything is possible for God, including making it possible to deceive even the 'elect.'

Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?”

Jesus replied, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”

You use too many words. The meaning of your post above is lost because you cross-contextualized inferences, and you mischaracterized the text.

For example: the "rich man" and the "elect". The rich man can't be saved by himself, but God can do it. And the "elect" reference is from another context where it says "if it were possible", but it's not. It says "if". The rich man and the elect are two separate things found in two different passages not related by subject or topic.

What is impossible for man is achieving his salvation without God according to the context of that reference.

And the deception of the elect occurs in another context not to be confused with the first.

And what's even more troubling is your inference that God would or could "cause" the elect to be deceived.

God is not in the business of deception. That's the devil's chore.
The elect cannot be deceived by the devil because they are full of truth.

Antichrist is anyone that denies that Jesus is the Christ.

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

@josephw said

God is not in the business of deception. That's the devil's chore.

Antichrist is anyone that denies that Jesus is the Christ.

According to you God and the devil are the same entity, if God is not in the same business. "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."

And you also previously stated that the pope is antichrist. But according to your latest statement, the pope cannot be the, or an antichrist, since the pope(s) for all their differences with how Christ lived, do not deny that Jesus is the Christ, but rather stress it without a doubt, and have been ever since Peter Simon, the denier, was made the first pope.

I have no time right now to address the rest of your comments. But in the meantime you should refresh you bible knowledge, perhaps by reading the bible in its entirety, and more than once. And you may as well brush up on the history of Christianity and Catholicism.

Repeating, "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."

“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand.

“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

@pettytalk said
According to you God and the devil are the same entity, if God is not in the same business.

If you arrived at that conclusion based on what you perceived I said or inferred, then you are delusional.

I see no benefit in continuing a discussion with someone that can so twist the meaning of my words.

I didn't post that many words. Quote me where I said any such thing.

@josephw said

Antichrist is anyone that denies that Jesus is the Christ.

I don't think that is an accurate understanding of antichrist, in a biblical context. (In fact, I know it isn't). The word doesn't just mean opposed to (or denies) but somebody who attempts to replace or substitute themselves for Christ.

This being the case, atheists can not be described as antichrists, as although they do not accept him as Christ, they do not seek to supplant him. (Why would they if they don't believe he is God). Antichrists therefore are false preachers who attempt to substitutes themselves for Christ.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I don't think that is an accurate understanding of antichrist, in a biblical context. (In fact, I know it isn't). The word doesn't just mean opposed to (or denies) but somebody who attempts to replace or substitute themselves for Christ.

This being the case, atheists can not be described as antichrists, as although they do not accept him as Christ, they do not see ...[text shortened]... is God). Antichrists therefore are false preachers who attempt to substitutes themselves for Christ.

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

The apostle goes further and clarifies:

1 John 4:1-3
¶ Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Take a step back to 1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist(singular) shall come, even now are there many antichrists(plural) ; whereby we know that it is the last time. () mine

Antichrist > instead of christ

Hey G.o.D., I didn't write the Bible, but it says what it means and means what it says, even if we don't always understand it all.

@josephw said
1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

The apostle goes further and clarifies:

1 John 4:1-3
¶ Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit tha ...[text shortened]... Bible, but it says what it means and means what it says, even if we don't always understand it all.

In Christian eschatology, the Antichrist refers to people prophesied by the Bible to oppose Jesus Christ and substitute themselves in Christ's place before the Second Coming.

The similar term pseudokhristos or "false Christ" is also found in the Gospels. In Matthew (chapter 24) and Mark (chapter 13), Jesus alerts his disciples not to be deceived by the false prophets, who will claim themselves to be the Christ, performing "great signs and wonders".

Antichrist is translated from the combination of two ancient Greek words ἀντί + Χριστός (anti + Christos). In Greek, Χριστός means "anointed one" and the word Christ derives from it. "Ἀντί" means not only anti in the sense of "against" and "opposite of", but also "in place of"

Our old friend Wiki.


Anti-Christ = In place of-Christ. (No atheist seeks to replace Christ. Only a theist of some description would seek to do that). - Anybody believing an antichrist is somebody anti/against Christ has simply failed to understand the etymology of the word.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
In Christian eschatology, the Antichrist refers to people prophesied by the Bible to oppose Jesus Christ and substitute themselves in Christ's place before the Second Coming.

The similar term pseudokhristos or "false Christ" is also found in the Gospels. In Matthew (chapter 24) and Mark (chapter 13), Jesus alerts his disciples not to be deceived by the false prophe ...[text shortened]... ntichrist is somebody anti/against Christ has simply failed to understand the etymology of the word.

Eschatology ~ a branch of theology concerned with the final events in the history of the world or of humankind.

You goofed it up right out of the shute G.o.D.

The term "antichrist", antichristos in the Greek, and from the context from which I quoted, means the adversary of the Messiah.

In Thessalonians he is called the man of sin, and the son of perdition. He comes as the "instead of Christ" or the "in place of Christ", whichever you like, and deceives many.

In Matthew and mark the Greek word used by Jesus is "christos", not pseudochristos as you said. Furthermore the term "false Christ" doesn't appear in the text, and "false prophets" occurs once in Matthew 24, and says only that they will "deceive many", and does not say they "claim themselves to be the Christ" or that they "perform great signs and wonders".

You have failed to understand who and what antichrist means, even its etymology, much less it's application in context.

@josephw said
Eschatology ~ a branch of theology concerned with the final events in the history of the world or of humankind.

You goofed it up right out of the shute G.o.D.

The term "antichrist", antichristos in the Greek, and from the context from which I quoted, means the adversary of the Messiah.

In Thessalonians he is called the man of sin, and the son of perdition. He comes ...[text shortened]... understand who and what antichrist means, even its etymology, much less it's application in context.

Firstly, the term Antichrist doesn't really have much of a showing in the NT (only found 4 times I believe, in the Epistles of John).

And again, Antichrist is translated from the combination of two ancient Greek words ἀντί + Χριστός (anti + Christos). In Greek, Χριστός means "anointed one" and the word Christ derives from it. "Ἀντί" means not only anti in the sense of "against" and "opposite of", but also "in place of."

Adversary to the Messiah is correct, but in the context of trying to replace Christ, not simply denying or failing to accept him as Christ.

Catch up.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Firstly, the term Antichrist doesn't really have much of a showing in the NT (only found 4 times I believe, in the Epistles of John).

And again, Antichrist is translated from the combination of two ancient Greek words ἀντί + Χριστός (anti + Christos). In Greek, Χριστός means "anointed one" and the word Christ derives from it. "Ἀντί" means not only anti in the sens ...[text shortened]... ext of trying to replace Christ, not simply denying or failing to accept him as Christ.

Catch up.

Get saved G.oD. Then the Holy Spirit will indwell your mind/heart and give you God's understanding. It goes far beyond mere technical understanding of meaning and use of phrases and words.

Jesus didn't come to save the righteous, but sinners. Obviously that term has no meaning for you except in a general sense.

Science is unaware of the supernatural.

@josephw said
Get saved G.oD. Then the Holy Spirit will indwell your mind/heart and give you God's understanding. It goes far beyond mere technical understanding of meaning and use of phrases and words.

Jesus didn't come to save the righteous, but sinners. Obviously that term has no meaning for you except in a general sense.

Science is unaware of the supernatural.

I'm hitching my wagon to science sir.

Edit: That said, the biggest adversary to the Messiah is the one who tries to replace him. That is the Antichrist you should concern yourself with.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I'm hitching my wagon to science sir.

Edit: That said, the biggest adversary to the Messiah is the one who tries to replace him. That is the Antichrist you should concern yourself with.

I'm not accusing you of being antichrist.

And I'm not worried about The antichrist either.

I'm certain you have a firm grasp on the content of the Bible. Better than some Christian posters here. I rather think our discussions are "scientific" as it were for the sake of discussion.

I enjoy the banter with you. We don't have to agree. We're just two human beings in a world of conflicting ideas and beliefs.

@josephw said
I'm not accusing you of being antichrist.

And I'm not worried about The antichrist either.

I'm certain you have a firm grasp on the content of the Bible. Better than some Christian posters here. I rather think our discussions are "scientific" as it were for the sake of discussion.

I enjoy the banter with you. We don't have to agree. We're just two human beings in a world of conflicting ideas and beliefs.

Indeed sir, but I have a better moustache.