07 Oct 06
Nobody knows what the truth is.
I think the number of people who can know what the basic truth is is near universal. Perhaps it is virtually universal.
The number of people who completely understand the molecular properties of air may be limited. I suppose some professor somewhere could write a three volume book just on all the things that could be known about air.
But a basic breath in and breath out to keep one alive is virtually universally available to people. (I acknowledge some medical exceptions of a serious nature). But virtually, to "know" air is made virtually universally available.
I guess I am starting with the basic knowing of God, knowing the basics about God, as a vital truth should be widely accessible and not narrowly so.
07 Oct 06
1 edit
Do you all think that the encrease of scientific information over the last 100 years has caused people to believe in God less or more?
With what the Hubble Telescope makes seen to the advancement of knowledge of the DNA molecule and the inner machinery of the living cell, do you all think people are less or more likely to believe in God?
I think I heard that the statistics show such advancements in scientific information has not caused less belief in God but more. I have at the moment no hard poll numbers.
But I think what the Apostle Paul wrote over 2,000 years ago is just as applicable today as it was then. And should another 800 years of encreased knowledge of the man and the universe yield even more scientific knowledge, I suspect Paul's words will still be the case.
Here is what Paul wrote:
"Because that which is known of God is manifest within them, for God manifested it to them.
For the invisible things of Him, of both His eternal power and divine characteristics, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being perceived by the things made, so that they would be without excuse ..." (Romans 1:19-20)
Power, without limitation, divinity of a Creator - transcending the finiteness and temporalness of human beings, Paul says are clearly perceived by the things made.
We know much more about "the things made" today then in the first century AD. We may know several fold more in technological future. The Apostle says that we're all without excuse because by the creation "that which is known of God is manifest within ...".
I think "within" must refer not only to the intellect but to the moral conscience of man within. The recognition of a divine God is within because of the things made.
I am agnostic about atheism. I don't think it is possible to know if a person really believes that there is no God. We can hear the claim from their mouth that they do not believe there is a God. I don't know if they are just exerting an amount of resistence to silence their conscience.
Anyway the apostle Paul says in essence "Look at the creation. In any and every age, they're without excuse to say that they don't know about God."
07 Oct 06
Originally posted by jaywillI don't know about you, but I always found God hard to cognize, and I am not altogether dumb.
[b]Nobody knows what the truth is.
I think the number of people who can know what the basic truth is is near universal. Perhaps it is virtually universal.
The number of people who completely understand the molecular properties of air may be limited. I suppose some professor somewhere could write a three volume book just on all the thin ...[text shortened]... nowing the basics about God, as a vital truth should be widely accessible and not narrowly so.[/b]
What does knowing the basic truth involve?
07 Oct 06
Originally posted by jaywillI guess I just disagree with Paul. It's not apparent to me. I don't think it's apparent at all. What's apparent is that the universe is mysterious, not explained.
Do you all think that the encrease of scientific information over the last 100 years has caused people to believe in God less or more?
With what the Hubble Telescope makes seen to the advancement of knowledge of the DNA molecule and the inner machinery of the living cell, do you all think people are less or more likely to believe in God?
I think I he ...[text shortened]... ny and every age, they're without excuse to say that they don't know about God."
08 Oct 06
Originally posted by PawnokeyholeThere are many things about God I understand better than I did before. But what is very important is that the obstacle lying between a person and the experience of God must be identified and dealt with. There is a barrier of frustration preventing God from being real to people.
I don't know about you, but I always found God hard to cognize, and I am not altogether dumb.
What does knowing the basic truth involve?
That barrier is their sins. The real record of real sins with real guilt causes an insulation cutting off the sinner's fellowship with God. Consider this passage:
"No, Jehovah's hand is not so short that it cannot save; Nor His ear so heavy that it cannot hear.
But your iniquities have become a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear." (Isaiah 59:1,2)
God longs for fellowship with man. God does not delight that man walk without having communion in His presence. He can hear your prayers in detail. Even the hairs on your head are numbered by God. His knowledge of you is complete.
But our sins, our iniquites make a separation between us and God. This is like a window which is toward the sunlight. But it has been smeared over with black smoke to the point that no light can penetrate the darkening stain of soot.
The specific acts of iniquity, the specifics sins of the mouth and of the members of a sinner's body - eyes, ears, hands, feet, these real sins have made a separation between the sinner and the experience of God.
The sinner may accumulate more and more objective knowledge about God. But still God is not real to the sinner.
What is needed to remove the obstacle is forgiveness from God toward the sinner. This forgiveness is preceeded by confession of sins and asking for forgiveness in the name of Jesus Christ. Provision has been made for the justification of the sinner. Provision has been supplied for reconciliation of the sinner to the righteous and holy God. What is needed is an acknowledgement on the side of the sinner that he or she is in need of this justification.
To be very graphic with you and practical, here is how the experience of God can become vital and real. A person spends some time in prayer like this:
"Dear God, I confess that I am a sinner. I love to sin. I cannot change myself. I cannot do better or improve. I confess that I am a sinner. With my lips, my eyes, my hands, my feet I have commited many iniquites. In the name of Jesus I confess I am a sinner in need of the precious blood of Christ.
Dear God I thank you that you have made provision for my reconciliation on the cross of Christ. I accept this provision according to your word and thank you."
Something like this or at very honest is very effective ti cause the Holy Spirit to flow into your heart. Sometimes a person will know it immediatly. At other times latter the person realizes that something deep and fundamental has been changed within thier life.
It is a personal matter. But the actual and real guilt of iniquity has caused a insulation blocking off the touch of God's divine life within thet sinner.
So we have to deal with the guilt of our sins though the atoneing blood of Jesus which was shed for our cleansing.
These words are trustworthy and reliable.
08 Oct 06
Originally posted by jaywill"I'm a really sucky piece of crap, so gimme some blood."
"Dear God, I confess that I am a sinner. I love to sin. I cannot change myself. I cannot do better or improve. I confess that I am a sinner. With my lips, my eyes, my hands, my feet I have commited many iniquites. In the name of Jesus I confess I am a sinner in need of the precious blood of Christ.
How many times must I repeat it before God becomes real?
08 Oct 06
3 edits
Originally posted by LemonJelloIf you come in a mocking despiteful attitude I don't want to assure you of results.
"I'm a really sucky piece of crap, so gimme some blood."
How many times must I repeat it before God becomes real?
You know the Bible says "God is not mocked." I think people who have a belief that they can mock God will be disappointed to eventually have to face the reality that the ultimate truth is not something you can mock.
I would say that your prayer does not have to sound religious or pious. It should be honest. It should be with a wide open heart. It should be with a willingness to be changed by God. And it should be according to the Bible's word.
I don't think God rejects an honest prayer. If you don't have faith you can confess to God that you don't have faith. Like this:
"God, I just don't have any faith. I expect to be disappointed. I don't really believe that you are there to hear me. Help my unbelief."
Now you mock the matter of the blood of Jesus. I think God has wrapped this matter up in the blood of Jesus because He is trying to get something across to mankind.
As much as it is possible for us to understand, God gave up everything because of His love for us. He clothed Himself in flesh and blood. And yes, in His blood He emphasizes that He, God as a man, gave up His life on your behalf. The penalty of sins was too heavy for you. So He bore that heavy penalty on your behalf. And He emphasizes this with the matter of the blood of Jesus the Son of God.
In other words God loved you to such an extent that as much as it is possible for you to comprehend, He came and passed through death on your behalf. He poured out His life that you could be saved.
I think the eternal God communicates this great self sacrificing love by having the blood of Jesus as the cleansing agent. We are cleansed from our sins in the blood of Jesus.
Our regret does not cleanse us. Our tears do not cleanse us. Our feeling sorrow or our remorse cannot cleanse us. Nothing but the blood of Jesus God's Son, can cleanse us from our sins.
He wrapped the whole matter of our redemption us in the blood of Christ. I don't say that you have to mention the blood of Christ. No. But it is helpful that you have a clear understanding that it is His death on your behalf that has accomplished redemption.
And His resurrection and indwelling supplies the power to live as a son of God.
08 Oct 06
Originally posted by LemonJelloThe poster's attitude is that God is interested in him groveling.
"I'm a really sucky piece of crap, so gimme some blood."
How many times must I repeat it before God becomes real?
God is not interested in man groveling in self deprevation. He is interested in man's repentence.
God is not interested in your begging. To simply receive and give thanks for what Christ has accomplished is worship enough. The mocking of the poster shows a warped sense of "Oh God must be interested in me wallowing in the dirt on my stomach and weeping how much of a crappy mess I am."
This is just a kind of warped pride. Christ is the Physician. Those who realize that they are in need of healing will be healed.
We do not have to beg God for forgiveness. We simply have to believe in the finished work of Christ. Praise and thanksgiving are effective.
"Lord Jesus, I believe what you have done for me in your death and resurrection and I receive it with thanksgiving."
God is interested in your faith and in your thanksgiving. He is not interested in your groveling in self deprivation.
08 Oct 06
Originally posted by jaywillNo, no, no! God doesn't exist. So why in the world would my attitude be that "God is interested in [my] groveling"? For that matter, why would my attitude be that "God is...(anything at all)..."?
The poster's attitude is that God is interested in him groveling.
God is not interested in man groveling in self deprevation. He is interested in man's repentence.
God is not interested in your begging. To simply receive and give thanks for what Christ has accomplished is worship enough. The mocking of the poster shows a warped sense of "Oh God must ...[text shortened]... aith and in your thanksgiving. He is not interested in your groveling in self deprivation.
My attitude is that your beliefs are degrading toward humanity. And to the extent that it is also speciesist, your belief system degrades all creatures.
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08 Oct 06
Originally posted by LemonJelloNo, no, no! God doesn't exist.
No, no, no! God doesn't exist. So why in the world would my attitude be that "God is interested in [my] groveling"? For that matter, why would my attitude be that "God is...(anything at all)..."?
My attitude is that your beliefs are degrading toward humanity. And to the extent that it is also speciesist, your belief system degrades all creatures.
And you are 100% sure about that?
08 Oct 06
2 edits
Originally posted by LemonJelloI don't believe that my belief in the God Who is there and Who does exist, is degrading to my humnity.
No, no, no! God doesn't exist. So why in the world would my attitude be that "God is interested in [my] groveling"? For that matter, why would my attitude be that "God is...(anything at all)..."?
My attitude is that your beliefs are degrading toward humanity. And to the extent that it is also speciesist, your belief system degrades all creatures.
I think without exception the highest humanity that has ever walked this earth is the humanity of Jesus Christ. He was not just good. He was glorious. His impact on human history has been glorious.
My repentence brings me into transformation to be like this glorious God-man Jesus of Nazareth. The whole aim of repentence and redemption is that I would be conformed to the image of the Son of God. How could this be degrading to my humanity? This is the glorification of my humanity.
Did you think repentence was an end in itself? Did you think forgiveness of sins is simply for the sake of forgiveness?
These matters are for the transformation and glorification of our humanity. And I feel glorious ane uplifted to be a son of God. I have become a partaker of God's own divine nature:
" ... He has granted to us precious and exceedingly great promises that through these you might become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption which is in the world through lust" (2 Peter 1:4)
Man was made for God. Man was made to be filled with the life of God and to express God united with man. Jesus Christ is simply what God meant by man. It is Christ who is normal. We have all become fallen.
It seems that Jesus Christ is an enigma. Actually we have all become fallen and perculiar. Christ represents the normal man. That is the man who expresses the splendour of the eternal Father living within Him.
So the degradation is certainly to live apart from God and enslaved to the corruption that is in the world through lust. To partake of the divine nature through the promises of the gospel is glorious living.
What could you possibly offer me that is superior to this?