1. Joined
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    25 Aug '07 14:40
    Do some human governments mandate the that all children in thier society be indoctrinated to believe we are have an relationship of descent with apes?

    Do some government sanction only evolutionary descent of human beings from ape like progenitors?

    I wonder if some countries need a constitutional philosophy of the seperation of Ape and State.
  2. Joined
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    25 Aug '07 15:54
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Do some human governments mandate the that all children in thier society be indoctrinated to believe we are have an relationship of descent with apes?

    Do some government sanction only evolutionary descent of human beings from ape like progenitors?

    I wonder if some countries need a constitutional philosophy of the seperation of Ape and State.
    Well, unless you can find definitive proof for Creation, I think schools should teach theories based on some form of evidence.
    Such as evidence for the so-called "missing link"
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2909803.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2082622.stm

    Or early European settlers, fossils of which are 30,000 years old
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6099422.stm

    But then I doubt you're really interested, since the Earth is only 6000 years old!
  3. Standard membertelerion
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    25 Aug '07 16:08
    Originally posted by Squelchbelch
    Well, unless you can find definitive proof for Creation, I think schools should teach theories based on some form of evidence.
    Such as evidence for the so-called "missing link"
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2909803.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2082622.stm

    Or early European settlers, fossils of which are 30,000 years old
    http://n ...[text shortened]... 422.stm

    But then I doubt you're really interested, since the Earth is only 6000 years old!
    Don't bother jaywill with evidence. He's already sold his stake in the real world for a fiction. A sad waste really.
  4. Joined
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    25 Aug '07 16:13
    I must admit I thought he was just trolling.
  5. Joined
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    25 Aug '07 16:31
    Hey, I was trolling.

    If you can't bet em, join em !

    What about the seperation of Ape and State? You must admit it does sound kind of catchy.
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    25 Aug '07 16:36
    I don't believe that the age of the earth can be dogmatically deduced from anything written in the Bible.

    The chronology of a 6,000 year old universe is not the belief of all evangelical Christians. And some of note did not hold to it.

    I think the age of man and the age of the universe are two distinct concepts.

    For example Dr. Donald Barnhouse, G.H. Pember, Arthur Custance, all great expositors of the Bible who held to an ancient earth.
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    25 Aug '07 16:36
    Originally posted by jaywill
    ...

    What about the seperation of Ape and State? You must admit it does sound kind of catchy.
    Not as catchy as the seperation of church & state!
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    25 Aug '07 16:38
    Neither is as significant as the mingling of God and man.

    Hey, did I spell seperation right?

    You guys are so smart.
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    25 Aug '07 16:431 edit
    Hold on. Creation verses descent from apes?

    What if the fossils of "ape men" are really fossils of degenerated men - men with diseases in their bones?

    Rather than progression we might have evidence of degeneration. I know of one scientist who has explored that possibility.

    Rather than fossils of pre-humans we might be seeing fossils of diseased and degenerating humans.
  10. Joined
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    25 Aug '07 16:52
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Hold on. Creation verses descent from apes?

    What if the fossils of "ape men" are really fossils of degenerated men - men with diseases in their bones?

    Rather than progression we might have evidence of [b]degeneration.
    I know of one scientist who has explored that possibility.

    Rather than fossils of pre-humans we might be seeing fossils of diseased and degenerating humans.[/b]
    What - a mysterious disease that raises & broadens the brows, reduces the size of the brain cavity & alters the jaw-line over several thousands of years?
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    25 Aug '07 17:034 edits
    Good question. But first I think we have to seperate the phonies and the true monkeys from the actual "human" fossils. Maybe we will know in the future with more research what could cause humans to degenerate so.

    When I was a kid there was not much talk about Killer Comets and Killer Gas and other world wide catastrophies wiping out species in one blow. There was some talk about little mammals eating up dinosaur eggs.

    So, if they are diseased human remains, we may have yet to discover what could have caused that. It remains a possibility.

    But finding two bones a large distance apart and saying that we just KNOW that they belonged to the same creature is, well, wishful thinking at best.

    So first we clear the table of fakes. Then we clear the table of actual apes. Then the remainder we can examine if they are unquestionably human.

    Should I think it is human just because some evolutionist enthusiastically endorses it so? Like the Athiestic Soviet film experts were certain that American photos of Big Foot were genuine?

    Of course they would have more stake in claiming them to be genuine and not fake photos.
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    25 Aug '07 17:211 edit
    Originally posted by jaywill
    Hey, did I spell seperation right?
    No 🙂
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    25 Aug '07 17:33
    Originally posted by jaywill

    When I was a kid there was not much talk about Killer Comets and Killer Gas and other world wide catastrophies wiping out species in one blow. There was some talk about little mammals eating up dinosaur eggs.

    That is precisely because as scientific advances broaden our knowledge, we have a greater understanding of the risks from events such as asteroid collisions.

    We now also see far enough to see planet-forming gasses, not to mention the several hundred planets that have been discovered in the past few years orbiting distant suns - some of which may well have water present.

    The atoms that make up our bodies are formed from the very same stuff as the first stars.
    You don't need particularly advanced gear to be able to hear the background microwave hiss of the big bang, several billion years ago.

    This is what is incredible; our existence in the Universe & trying to comprehend that Universe - not some jumped-up, insular political manifesto 2000 years out of date.
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    25 Aug '07 17:44
    If you are so excited about scientific advances are you not concerned that everything you believe today may be shown to be false 800 years from now ?
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    25 Aug '07 18:10
    Originally posted by jaywill
    If you are so excited about scientific advances are you not concerned that everything you believe today may be shown to be false 800 years from now ?
    Some things may well change.
    For instance, I strongly believe in the existence of extraterrestrial life.

    I think that the entire fossil record & carbon dating methods somehow being proven wholly inaccurate is unlikely though, given 800 or 8 million years worth of advances.

    Thing is, I keep an open mind.
    If the evdence empirically proves something, that is!
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