24 Nov '12 09:13>
Originally posted by RJHindsThe problem with this 'new' evidence is the second sample. There was one sample taken and if that dating is flawed, they need more samples and that is not going to be forthcoming. Taking from the corner like that reveals at least two different threads which was probably a repair and such but they couldn't have known that at the time so more samples are needed by the scientific community and it sounds like the Vatican will not let that happen.
NEW EVIDENCE CONCERNING THE CARBON DATING OF THE SHROUD OF TURIN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=cLNo5_o9Q64
Originally posted by sonhouseI believe I remember hearing that the scientist had proof that the man that was covered by the shroud was dead. I don't know how they determined that but if it was Jesus then those other rumors about being healed by aloe and going to India have to be false.
The problem with this 'new' evidence is the second sample. There was one sample taken and if that dating is flawed, they need more samples and that is not going to be forthcoming. Taking from the corner like that reveals at least two different threads which was probably a repair and such but they couldn't have known that at the time so more samples are need ...[text shortened]... at some point in the future, those bones will be examined and the story told once again.
Originally posted by RJHindsOne way to add negative evidence: He was never supposed to have children. But if there is actual blood on the cloth and we can sniff out the DNA, we could see how close the DNA is to people who live there now. Maybe not, but its another check.
I believe I remember hearing that the scientist had proof that the man that was covered by the shroud was dead. I don't know how they determined that but if it was Jesus then those other rumors about being healed by aloe and going to India have to be false.
I know there is no way to actually prove the man was Jesus, but all the indications of how this man ...[text shortened]... h the account mentioned in the Holy bible. Possibly just a coincidence, but I don't think so.
Originally posted by sonhouseThe rumor is aloe healedd a dead man. There is no evidence that a dead man has ever been healed by aloe. If he was dead, which the scientist say he was, then no amount of aloe is going to heal him. You need to read about the burial customs of the Jews of putting spices on the body back then before you jump to conclusions about dead men being healed by aloe. Sounds pretty stupid to me.
One way to add negative evidence: He was never supposed to have children. But if there is actual blood on the cloth and we can sniff out the DNA, we could see how close the DNA is to people who live there now. Maybe not, but its another check.
The Aloe thing is not rumor, it is in the bible. There is no reason to put aloe on a dead man.
They put aloe e days when being crucified. That also may have been the result of a few shekels passing hands.
Originally posted by RJHindsYou are making my point. That Jesus was not dead, therefore that body depicted was NOT Jesus but some other hapless dude. The bible clearly states Jesus was covered in aloe, which by your own admission is not put on a dead man.
The rumor is aloe healedd a dead man. There is no evidence that a dead man has ever been healed by aloe. If he was dead, which the scientist say he was, then no amount of aloe is going to heal him. You need to read about the burial customs of the Jews of putting spices on the body back then before you jump to conclusions about dead men being healed by alo d an infusion of the spices to the water with which the dead was washed (see Taharah).
Originally posted by sonhouseThe account in the Holy Bible is John 19:31-42. This is what is written:
You are making my point. That Jesus was not dead, therefore that body depicted was NOT Jesus but some other hapless dude. The bible clearly states Jesus was covered in aloe, which by your own admission is not put on a dead man.
The evidence in your favor might go up if the cloth could be shown to have the residue resulting from those healing herbs but otherwise.....
Originally posted by RJHindsIt sure looks to me like he was covered in aloe, it says wrapped with the 'spices'.
The account in the Holy Bible is John 19:31-42. This is what is written:
Nicodemus, who had first come to Him by night, also came, bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pounds weight. So they took the body of Jesus and bound it in linen wrappings with the spices, as is the burial custom of the Jews.
(John 19:39-40 NASB)
It does no ...[text shortened]... I am sure that the Roman soldiers had seen enough dead bodies to know if Jesus was dead or not.
Originally posted by sonhouseBut— undoubtedly with the view of removing the odor—spices were put on the coffin or otherwise used at funerals (Ber. viii. 6; John xii. 7, xix. 39), and myrtles and aloes (in liquid state) were carried in the procession (Bezah 6a; John xix. 39).In honor of dead kings "sweet odors and diverse kinds of spices" were burned (Jer. xxxiv. 5; II Chron. xvi. 14, xxi. 19), together with the bier and the armor (see 'Ab. Zarah 11a), or carried along in the procession (Josephus, "Ant." xv. 3, § 4; xvii. 83; idem, "B. J." i. 33, § 9).
It sure looks to me like he was covered in aloe, it says wrapped with the 'spices'.
I never heard of them covering the body with aloe as a burial custom.
Originally posted by RJHindsYou know, we can debate the in's and out's of this all day but the bottom line is there was no resurrection, he either died or didn't but there was no ascension into heaven.
But— [b]undoubtedly with the view of removing the odor—spices were put on the coffin or otherwise used at funerals (Ber. viii. 6; John xii. 7, xix. 39), and myrtles and aloes (in liquid state) were carried in the procession (Bezah 6a; John xix. 39).In honor of dead kings "sweet odors and diverse kinds of spices" were burned (Jer. xxxiv. 5; II Chron. xvi. 14, ...[text shortened]... ion and does not indicate the weight of the myrrh and aloes but some money value instead.
Originally posted by sonhouseOkay, if that is what you want to believe; but I what to believe something else.
You know, we can debate the in's and out's of this all day but the bottom line is there was no resurrection, he either died or didn't but there was no ascension into heaven.
Think about it: Why would a god do that and only for a few people around him?
Leaving out what now is billions of people who never even heard the name of Jesus, live out their ent s designed by men to control other men and subjugate women which has worked REALLY well.