1. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    23 Aug '10 23:31
    Please correct any incorrect facts.

    The city states of the Canaanites, such as Jericho, Jerusalem, Sodom, Gomorrah, etc grew to power first in the modern day Israel region, then called Canaan. The Canaanites were merchants; trade in the Levant has been happening since civilization began at least and they were the first merchant princes.

    The Akkadian Empire was the first empire to conquer the region under Sargon the Great around 2200 BCE. They referred to the Jews as "tent dwellers" and came from modern day Iraq.

    The Akkadians were defeated back in their homeland within a few hundred years by the Gutians, a "barbarian" people.

    There may have been a period of independence, but soon the Egyptian Empire took Canaan and enslaved the Jews.

    Then the Egyptian empire started to fall apart as the Pharoahs rose to power.
    Simultaneously, the god of the Sun had been steadily rising to power. He was known by several names in Egypt, but the name that became dominant was Aten, and he ruled from Heliopolis. He was the first, or one of the first, to assume the mantle of the One True God around 1300 BCE. He provided the Pharoahs with the Divine Right of Kings.

    Interestingly, all through early human history, overgrazing had produced a permanent, increasing drought effect that created the Sahara; a drought so powerful as to force abandonment of cities. This may have been seen as Aten, the Sun, exerting his dominance.

    Soon afterward, the Jewish slaves under Moses escaped through Medea in southern Jordan, where Moses encountered YHW, a god of a nomadic ethnic group called the Shasu who had also been conquered by the Egyptians, in a burning bush. Their ranks swollen into a "mixed multitude" by acceptance of other refugees from empires and city states, they returned to Canaan and conquered it back arond 1200 BCE. Inspired by the Egyptians and needing to unify for defense, they soon declared THEIR god YHW the One True God, and unified into a Kingdom of Israel under sole Jewish monarch David, after he led them to victory over the Philistines, who lived in the Gaza Strip area.

    Civil war led to the conquest of the region by Akkadian/Assyrian/Babylonian Empire again ~700-500 BCE, followed by Alexander the Great and then Rome etc.
  2. Standard memberRajk999
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    24 Aug '10 00:38
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Please correct any incorrect facts.

    The city states of the Canaanites, such as Jericho, Jerusalem, Sodom, Gomorrah, etc grew to power first in the modern day Israel region, then called Canaan. The Canaanites were merchants; trade in the Levant has been happening since civilization began at least and they were the first merchant princes.

    The Akk ...[text shortened]... n/Babylonian Empire again ~700-500 BCE, followed by Alexander the Great and then Rome etc.
    Incorrect facts? Is there such a thing?

    😀
  3. England
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    24 Aug '10 10:06
    is not yhwh mentioned in genisis rather than moses
  4. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    25 Aug '10 04:522 edits
    Originally posted by stoker
    is not yhwh mentioned in genisis rather than moses
    NVM, I suppose it is indigenous to the area...
  5. England
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    25 Aug '10 13:13
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    NVM, I suppose it is indigenous to the area...
    ??? sorry mate beyond me
  6. Cape Town
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    25 Aug '10 17:16
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Please correct any incorrect facts.

    Interestingly, all through early human history, overgrazing had produced a permanent, increasing drought effect that created the Sahara; a drought so powerful as to force abandonment of cities.
    I thought the Sahara was largely a result of the Himalayas.
  7. Cape Town
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    25 Aug '10 17:17
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Please correct any incorrect facts.
    Do you have any references to any evidence that the people Moses led did originate in the Canaan area?
  8. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    25 Aug '10 18:00
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Do you have any references to any evidence that the people Moses led did originate in the Canaan area?
    Not really. They were a "mixed multitude" so many of them may not have come from Canaan.

    If they didn't come from Canaan, however, where did they come from? We know that the people of Canaan were conquered and enslaved by Egyptians right? Where do Jews come from if not Judea/Judah? Why is their religion focussed around Canaanite cities like Sodom, Gomorrah, Jerusalem, Jericho?
  9. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    25 Aug '10 18:48
    Originally posted by stoker
    ??? sorry mate beyond me
    I mean that it's been the Jewish religion before Moses, which I didn't think was true when I started this thread.
  10. Cape Town
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    25 Aug '10 19:081 edit
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    If they didn't come from Canaan, however, where did they come from? We know that the people of Canaan were conquered and enslaved by Egyptians right?
    I didn't know that. Do you have references?

    Where do Jews come from if not Judea/Judah? Why is their religion focussed around Canaanite cities like Sodom, Gomorrah, Jerusalem, Jericho?
    I thought all those traditions appeared after they left Egypt, not before.
  11. Cape Town
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    25 Aug '10 19:16
    From Wikipedia
    While some archaeologists leave open the possibility of a Semitic tribe coming from Egyptian servitude among the early hilltop settlers and that Moses or a Moses-like figure may have existed in Transjordan ca 1250-1200, they dismiss the possibility that the Exodus could have happened as described in the bible.[19] A century of research by archaeologists and Egyptologists has found no evidence which can be directly related to the Exodus narrative of an Egyptian captivity and the escape and travels through the wilderness,[8] and it has become increasingly clear that Iron Age Israel - the kingdoms of Judah and Israel - has its origins in Canaan, not Egypt:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus#Archaeology
  12. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    26 Aug '10 01:54
    OK, let's start from common ground. We agree that they were slaves in Egypt before ~1200 BCE right?
  13. Cape Town
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    26 Aug '10 04:54
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    OK, let's start from common ground. We agree that they were slaves in Egypt before ~1200 BCE right?
    No, I don't. Do you have any references for that other than the Bible?
  14. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    26 Aug '10 20:261 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    No, I don't. Do you have any references for that other than the Bible?
    OK. You tell me what you think happened at that time.

    Or are you just a universal skeptic?

    EDIT

    I thought all those traditions appeared after they left Egypt, not before.

    What did you mean by the bolded part?
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