The stress of uncertainty

@fmf said
You once talked to someone ~ an atheist ~ who became "quite testy and more than excited" about it? Or all the atheists you talked to did? Be clear.

FMF, you do know how general statements about things work.

This is just an attempt to derail.

@philokalia said
FMF, you do know how general statements about things work.

This is just an attempt to derail.

How on Earth can you generalize on the basis of having met someone who became "quite testy and more than excited" about something?

If anything, it is fatuous anecdotes such as yours that serve to derail discussions. Have you ever met a theist who became "quite testy and more than excited" about something and then extrapolated from it a generalization about theists? I'd imagine not.

@philokalia said
Being stressed out by your own mindset and ideology is not something that people like to publicly admit to, and if itis admitted to, it is almost always done in reflection, about the past.

So what are you basing your assertion about 'agnostics feeling stress' on?

@fmf said
"How can one bear up under the stress of uncertainty? Especially about the truth."

This "question" definitely has the whiff of rhetoric aimed ~ not at non-believers ~ but at the choir.

It involves peering out through the prism associated with a particular dogma ~ the one shared by the choir ~ and seeking to project some sort of emotional difficulty or impairment - in this case, a state of "stress" - onto those who believe something different.

"Seeking to project"? "Aimed" "at the choir"? "Whiff of rhetoric"?

Seems you've gone into defense mechanism mode. No need.

Stress is internal, brought on by external forces.

The question I raised has as it's impetus the nature and context of this forum, and in particular the thread from which it is taken. Nothing was "aimed" at anyone. A thought was shared relative to the discussion. No such motive to "project" "emotional difficulty or impairment" exists.

Your reaction to the question is defensive.

@secondson said
Your reaction to the question is defensive.

You are mistaken. My point is that your question "How can one bear up under the stress of uncertainty?" sounds like preach-to-the-choir posturing by projecting some sort of "stress" onto me. I don't have to "bear up under the stress of uncertainty" in the same way as I don't have to stop beating my wife.

@secondson said
No such motive to project emotional difficulty or impairment exists.

What "stress" are you referring to then?

@fmf said
You are mistaken. My point is that your question "How can one bear up under the stress of uncertainty?" sounds like preach-to-the-choir posturing by projecting some sort of "stress" onto me. I don't have to "bear up under the stress of uncertainty" in the same way as I don't have to stop beating my wife.

"Stress", or any number of other ways I could have termed the internal experience that some no doubt share, like "turmoil" for example, was not aimed at any particular individual. You needn't make it personal.

It is a well know fact that many live in constant fear of death because of the uncertainty of not knowing what comes next. The reason, because man has an innate sense of the eternal, and the lack of certainty, of assurance, that there is meaning relative to the cessation of life, causes anxiety, for some.

According to the truth, of the Bible, man was not created to die, but to live forever. There's no file in man's nature where death can be understood, legitimately, as a natural consequence of life.

@fmf said
What "stress" are you referring to then?

@secondson said
"No such motive to project emotional difficulty or impairment exists."

@fmf said
"What "stress" are you referring to then?"

I don't see how that question follows.

@secondson said
"Stress", or any number of other ways I could have termed the internal experience that some no doubt share, like "turmoil" for example, was not aimed at any particular individual. You needn't make it personal.

It is a well know fact that many live in constant fear of death because of the uncertainty of not knowing what comes next. The reason, because man has an innate se ...[text shortened]... file in man's nature where death can be understood, legitimately, as a natural consequence of life.

Everything in existence has a shelf life, including us. Things live (hopefully reproduce) and then die.

Man is unique in having the mental capacity to convince himself he merely progresses on to a higher shelf.

@fmf said
How on Earth can you generalize on the basis of having met someone who became "quite testy and more than excited" about something?

If anything, it is fatuous anecdotes such as yours that serve to derail discussions. Have you ever met a theist who became "quite testy and more than excited" about something and then extrapolated from it a generalization about theists? I'd imagine not.

Oh geez, you become so prickly when anyone even suggests there could be something negative within the typical agnostic mentality, lol.

We can talk about the vices of theists in another thread, sure, but this is about how agnostics and the likes can suffer from uncertainty, and I have, indeed, seen that.

If you don't want the opinions of people on this, why did you make a whole thread about it? Just so you can flex?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Everything in existence has a shelf life, including us. Things live (hopefully reproduce) and then die.

Man is unique in having the mental capacity to convince himself he merely progresses on to a higher shelf.

"In the beginning" there was no entropy.

Your perception is precipitated by the experience you have gained living in a fallen state.

Death is not normal relative to the origin of man. Man has the unique capacity to process the eternal state as a reality, that death is a consequence of sin.

@secondson said
"In the beginning" there was no entropy.

Your perception is precipitated by the experience you have gained living in a fallen state.

Death is not normal relative to the origin of man. Man has the unique capacity to process the eternal state as a reality, that death is a consequence of sin.

Fish die. Penguins die. Is their death a result of sin?

If cats developed an intelligence capable of contemplating the finality of death, they too would most likely cling to the hope of divine salvation.

@fmf said
SecondSon asked this on another thread: "How can one bear up under the stress of uncertainty? Especially about the truth."

Regardless of what religion one adheres to, is subscribing to a theological or ideological version of what "the truth" is, a way of avoiding stress?

What exactly is the disadvantage of uncertainty about spiritual things?

The chap you should be reading is Camus, "The Myth of Sisyphus." He posed exactly that question.

I shall paraphrase: the crucial moment is not the leap of faith, into certainty. The crucial moment is the instant before the leap of faith.

What is so bad about uncertainty? A question, a doubt, an uncertainty, is a quickening, it stimulates the mind, makes you keep on thinking.

What is bad about certainty: it is deadening. It makes people think they can stop thinking. Certainty leads to rigidity and dogma.


I quote from Bertrand Russell:

## The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

## To teach how to live without certainty and yet without being paralysed by hesitation is perhaps the chief thing that philosophy, in our age, can do for those who study it.

EDIT: I would turn the question around. "How does anyone bear it, believing that all questions have already been settled, including which people are going to Heaven?" That leads straight to fatalism.

@philokalia said
If you don't want the opinions of people on this, why did you make a whole thread about it? Just so you can flex?

What was your generalization based on?

@secondson said
I don't see how that question follows.

@secondson said
"How can one bear up under the stress of uncertainty? Especially about the truth."

@fmf said
"What "stress" are you referring to then?"