the sum of his parts

Originally posted by sonship

do i have to consider them sins?

If you bring your life under the light of the Bible you will see that you have indeed sinned.

But if you do not want to agree with God then you can rationalize, excuse, or reason their guilt away.

You could say the OTHER person needs repentence more than [b]you do.
You can resolve that you ...[text shortened]... h one under the blood of Jesus.

Then you will have no problem to fellowshipping with Christ.[/b]

interesting that you would choose to word something 'if you do not want to agree with god'

this implies my opinions on what is or isnt sin is based upon opposing gods view. which is far from the truth. i base my opinions on what i think is right or wrong, i do not take gods opinion into consideration. there are many things i agree with god, so im not sure why you would choose to word something like that. it adds a whole new meaning that was never there.


You could say the OTHER person needs repentence more than [b]you do.
You can resolve that you still want to enjoy your sinning for a little longer.
You can bribe your conscience by doing something else which you think God would be pleased with.[/b]

non of this makes sense to me, you seem to be saying that me disagreeing that some things should be classed as sins is just me making excuses because i enjoy doing it? is this right?

lets put this into real terms to help understand each other.

god says - homosexuality is a sin. i say - homosexuality should not be a sin.

do you think i secretly think it is but want to rebel against god? do you think i think it so i can enjoy homosexual activity? how am i 'bribing my conscience'???

Originally posted by stellspalfie
interesting that you would choose to word something [b]'if you do not want to agree with god'

this implies my opinions on what is or isnt sin is based upon opposing gods view. which is far from the truth. i base my opinions on what i think is right or wrong, i do not take gods opinion into consideration. there are many things i agree with ...[text shortened]... you think i think it so i can enjoy homosexual activity? how am i 'bribing my conscience'???[/b]

“But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go, work today in my vineyard.’ He answered and said, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he regretted it and went. Then he came to the second and said likewise. And he answered and said, ‘I go, sir,’ but he did not go. Which of the two did the will of his father?”

They said to Him, “The first.”

Jesus said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you. For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him; but tax collectors and harlots believed him; and when you saw it, you did not afterward relent and believe him.

(Matthew 21:28-32 NKJV)

Originally posted by stellspalfie
You could say the OTHER person needs repentence more than [b]you do.
You can resolve that you still want to enjoy your sinning for a little longer.
You can bribe your conscience by doing something else which you think God would be pleased with.[/b]
[b]

Everyone need to repent the same.
The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”


Jesus came for sinners not good people.
Jesus Calls Levi and Eats With Sinners
27 After this, Jesus went out and saw a tax collector by the name of Levi sitting at his tax booth. “Follow me,” Jesus said to him, 28 and Levi got up, left everything and followed him.

29 Then Levi held a great banquet for Jesus at his house, and a large crowd of tax collectors and others were eating with them. 30 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law who belonged to their sect complained to his disciples, “Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?”

31 Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

this implies my opinions on what is or isnt sin is based upon opposing gods view. which is far from the truth. i base my opinions on what i think is right or wrong, i do not take gods opinion into consideration. there are many things i agree with god, so im not sure why you would choose to word something like that. it adds a whole new meaning that was never there.

I emphasize here what is to me the most important point.

You said honestly that you cannot seem to get on the line (or something like that). You indicate you cannot seem to contact God. God is not real to you.

Theorize, argue, debate, about God you can do for hours. But God is not real to you.

I am telling why. Your sins have made an barrier to personal intinate communion with God.

Now if there were no answer to that problem, that would indeed be unfortunate. But I tell you there is provision made for this problem. It was made before you were born.

The obstacle between you and an intimate and personal communion with God is your sins. Nothing more interesting. Nothing more intriquing.

I recommended being detailed about them in confession. Actually even if you were general it probably would work also. IE. "Lord God I approach you not based upon my merit but trusting in the blood of Christ that you have provided for the cleansing of my sins. Lord Jesus I come to You under the redeeming blood. I know no other stand. I stand before you on the basis of your redeeming work to save me from my sins."

Some people prefer that the barrier remain intack.
Some people want there to be a insulation between them and God.

Some people want the barrier removed.
The blood of Jesus is the way to definitely have the barrier removed.

This can be taken to the bank.
This is trustworthy information.

non of this makes sense to me, you seem to be saying that me disagreeing that some things should be classed as sins is just me making excuses because i enjoy doing it? is this right?

The truth of the matter is that we do not realize to what extent we have transgressed. If we were to see this all at once it might drive us mad.

Some light is given. Some realization is given.
There is no need to hunt for things which you consider questionable and do not want to admit are sins.

You will have enough time to consider the things which you know have been your sins.

lets put this into real terms to help understand each other.

god says - homosexuality is a sin. i say - homosexuality should not be a sin.

do you think i secretly think it is but want to rebel against god? do you think i think it so i can enjoy homosexual activity? how am i 'bribing my conscience'???

I listed the bribing of our conscience as one of a number of things we do to avoid repentance.

Argue your case with God Himself. He never rejects an honest conversation, I think. IF you pour out your heart and tell God how you feel I think this is a start to draw close to God as well.

I have had many many constraversies with God.
I found that an honest talk is good to have with God.

I would recommend that you read the Psalms and see how many times David or one of the other Psalmists poured out their complaint before God. They poured out their hearts before God in honesty.

It is good to realize that no one love you as the Christ Who went to His cross for you that you could be reconciled to God.

He could do this because He was God/man. He was the eternal and the temporal, the Divine and the human. And His death on your behalf can have that kind of both personal and eternal relevance.

IF you do not pour out your heart to God you will never pour out your heart to someone who cares for you MORE, loves you MORE than God.

Originally posted by sonship

cant get through, just a dead line.

Start with the parts of your own body. From the eyes, to the nose, the ears, the mough and begin to confess some known sins of each.

The things your eyes have beheld. Some of them were sinful. Confess to God the sins of your eyes.

Then what you have spoken. Some of the things you have said ar ...[text shortened]... in to enjoy fellowship with the Father.

What you have just read is reliable and true.

This is how we do it at the worship place that I go to.

Originally posted by sonship
[quote] this implies my opinions on what is or isnt sin is based upon opposing gods view. which is far from the truth. i base my opinions on what i think is right or wrong, i do not take gods opinion into consideration. there are many things i agree with god, so im not sure why you would choose to word something like that. it adds a whole new meaning that wa ...[text shortened]... u will never pour out your heart to someone who cares for you MORE, loves you MORE than God.

you are still not really answering my point. you are suggesting to me that i admit to my sins via your body part system. im am simply asking that if i do this does it matter if i actually believe they are sins or not. i do not believe that sex before marriage is a sin, should i still confess that i have done it?


I am telling why. Your sins have made an barrier to personal intinate communion with God.

when i was a child i went to church, my mother is a catholic. i had not sinned at that point. i went to a school that was religious, i even played joseph in the school nativity. i was a well behaved child, who sang his hymns with gusto and enjoyed reading the stories of the childrens bible i had.......at what point should i have felt god? even as an adult my sins are few and far between, so why are my few sins a bigger barrier to me than say yours or any other christian on here? do you think i must be a bigger sinner than a christian?

its interesting that nobody can or is willing to say if they think god is made of something. does this mean that there is a possibility that he may be made of nothing?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
its interesting that nobody can or is willing to say if they think god is made of something. does this mean that there is a possibility that he may be made of nothing?

RJ explained it in post 11

its interesting that nobody can or is willing to say if they think god is made of something. does this mean that there is a possibility that he may be made of nothing?

What is also interesting is that given a practical way to know God personally - intimately, some people would rather collect more and more objective information in exchange for personal fellowship with God.

Originally posted by RBHILL
RJ explained it in post 11

he explained nothing. he said its like asking the wind if it has parts. we know the wind has parts, it doesnt. can you expand on this?

Originally posted by sonship

its interesting that nobody can or is willing to say if they think god is made of something. does this mean that there is a possibility that he may be made of nothing?

What is also interesting is that given a practical way to know God personally - intimately, some people would rather collect more and more objective information in exchange for personal fellowship with God.

why does it need to be 'in exchange'? why cant we have information about god scientifically and know him? why is that a problem?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
why does it need to be 'in exchange'? why cant we have information about god scientifically and know him? why is that a problem?

why does it need to be 'in exchange'? why cant we have information about god scientifically and know him? why is that a problem?

Okay. Let me humor your question just a little bit.

You know a picture is worth 1,000 words. The picture we are given of man's experience of God in eternity is that of a river flowing continually through us.

This is a continuos flowing as if all of God needs eternity to pass through man's experience -

"And He showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb in the middle of its street." (Rev. 22:1)

A River of water of divine life flowing from His administrating throne.

Of course the bible speaks of God's soul, mind, Spirit, even arm, even wings, eyes, hand.

All this communicates to us what God is like, if not exhaustively explains God scientifically.

Originally posted by sonship

why does it need to be 'in exchange'? why cant we have information about god scientifically and know him? why is that a problem?

Okay. Let me humor your question just a little bit.

You know a picture is worth 1,000 words. The picture we are given of man's experience of God in eternity is that of a river flowing continually thr ...[text shortened]... his communicates to us what God is like, if not exhaustively explains God scientifically.

this is just nonsensical gibberish, it reminds me of 1960's drug induced prog rock lyrics. its a series of interlinking metaphors and analogies. is it possible to explain your god in a clear succinct way?? im guessing not, the reason i suspect is that you need to dress it up in flowery poetic (rather than scientific) language is because you dont really have a clue and giving it some creative english literature gravitas makes it feel like it means more than it actually does.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
why does it need to be 'in exchange'? why cant we have information about god scientifically and know him? why is that a problem?

Science deals with observable things. Science may be able to sense God or something is present, but because science denies the existence of God they will either ignore or assign another cause to the unexplained. An invisible God, which is spirit rather than material, is not something that science is equipped to investigate.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Science deals with observable things. Science may be able to sense God or something is present, but because science denies the existence of God they will either ignore or assign another cause to the unexplained. An invisible God, which is spirit rather than material, is not something that science is equipped to investigate.

more gibberish.

science will accept god the second there is any evidence that it exists.


does a 'spirit' god have physical qualities?