The "True" Religion?

Consider St Luke 15:7 --

...I tell you, there will be rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents...

Consider St Luke 15:10 --

...I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents...

Who is doing this rejoicing? These two passages certainly suggests that God
isn't the only one. Indeed, one gets the image of a crowd of faithful cheering
like at a hockey game: 'We got another repentant believer!'

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
Consider St Luke 15:7 --

...I tell you, there will be rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents...

Consider St Luke 15:10 --

...I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents...

Who is doing this rejoicing? These two passages certainly suggests that God
isn't the only one. Indeed, one get ...[text shortened]... d of faithful cheering
like at a hockey game: 'We got another repentant believer!'

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
So what? Why is being on the phone mean that the prayers
count more? A person who is alive might pray sinfully, a person
in heaven cannot sin and would pray properly.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
I never said that they were omnipresent. I simply am suggesting that
there is no reason to believe that they cannot see or hear us if they
choose. I am not saying they do, but there is no Biblical evidence to
say they don't.

Similarly, I see no reason why a Christian would claim that dead people
cannot pray for us, since, too, there is no prohibition against this.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
Originally posted by Darfius
[b]"So Saul died for [b]his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; And enquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse. ...[text shortened]... sin is the product of your fertile
imagination and bigotry towards the Roman Church.

Nemesio[/b]

Originally posted by Darfius
Only a select few people are in Heaven right now. Technically, those dead in Christ aren't raised until Jesus' 2nd Coming. It seems like a second for them, but right now, they aren't in heaven, and thus cannot hear our vain prayers.

Originally posted by Darfius
That would be the angels.

Originally posted by Darfius
Your position that the few saints who are in heaven can hear us when we pray is EXTRA-biblical. It is up to you to prove it with Scripture and you know this.

I offered you the St Luke passages which seem to suggest people
other than God and the angels are listening. You haven't refuted
them (except for your semantic misinterpretation).

Your claim that people who ask for saints' and Mary's intercessions
is sinful is EXTRA-Biblical. It is up to you to prove it with Scripture.

We are told to pray to God, and ask for the intercession of Jesus. RBHILL, when he prays for me, is asking for the intercession of Jesus, but that is through prayer, why would Mary need to pray if she could just look over and ask Jesus?

You have failed to indicate to me why it is ok to ask RBHILL to pray
for you but not Mary. RBHILL is a sinner, but Mary, who is in heaven,
is not. RBHILL may pray incorrectly, Mary cannot.

Are you suggesting that people don't pray in heaven?

And if that's the case, it would make more sense if Catholics just went to the source. By the way, I don't make my request of RBHILL in the form of a prayer so there is NO confusion. When people pray to Mary (because that's what they do, let's not pretend), that is in violation of Scripture.

I'd hate to list all of the things that people do that are in violation of
Scripture and church teaching. I've never seen it taught improperly,
I've never heard a sermon about it that reflect the nature of
intercession improperly, I've never read an official document or
publication which discussed it improperly.

People are sinners. They do the wrong things lots of times, even
while trying to do the right thing. Are you suggesting RBHILL should
stop praying to Jesus because sometimes he does it wrong? No, of
course you aren't. Then, I wouldn't recommend to RCs to stop asking
for Mary's intercessions either.

I've already shown you where the Pope said he belonged to Mary. You ignored that.

I should like to see precisely what he meant by this by seeing this
quote in its full context. I'm not responsible for the Pope -- he's not
infallible -- in any event. If you give me a link to the entire sermon or
encyclical that has this phrase, I will read it and give you my educated
guess about what he meant.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
...I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents...

Huh? The angles rejoice in the presence of the angels of God?

It doesn't make semantic sense!

It sure seems like people are paying attention to the actions of
sinners. Mary, no doubt, would be included among them.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
What is your justification for this, that dead people aren't
in heaven right now? (Certainly you aren't arguing for
purgatory...)

And, even if this position pans out to make any Biblical
sense, how do you know that, whatever magical place these
people are, that they cannot hear?

And, lastly, who are these select few? Wouldn't you say that
Mary is one of them?

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
Originally posted by Darfius
[b]Your position that the few saints who are in heaven can hear us when we pray is EXTRA-biblical. It is up to you to prove it with Scripture and you know this.

I offered you the St Luke passages which seem to suggest people
other than God and the angels are listening. You haven't refuted
them (except for y ...[text shortened]... has this phrase, I will read it and give you my educated
guess about what he meant.

Nemesio[/b]

Originally posted by Darfius
Uhh, it's clearly saying the angels rejoice, or are you alleging that the Bible says dead people are rejoicing among the angels?

Why would it add angels if it wasn't discussing them? Cmon, you're getting desperate.

Originally posted by Darfius
I already showed you we are supposed to pray to God and no one else. So when people pray to Mary, they are sinning. I don't pray to RB, he doesn't pray to me, we pray FOR each other, as our Lord Jesus did on the cross for His assailants. Case closed.

Yes. I've said this: People should not pray to Mary. We agree.
However, you haven't demonstrated why we can't ask Mary to pray
for us.

ANSWER THIS QUESTION
Why is it ok to ask RBHILL to pray for you and not Mary?

Oh, the Pope isn't infallible? Well then you've just admitted the RCC is a joke. Thank you for proving my point.

This only goes to demonstrate the ignorance you have about RC
doctrine. The Pope isn't infallible; the only time that he claims
infallibility is when he speaks ex cathedra on matters of faith.
In the past 100 years or so, I believe it has happened twice. Ivanhoe
may know more about this.

You and RBHILL speak with an infallible tone, but RBHILL recently said
that Mary was just like other women when Scripture says otherwise. He
and the Pope are sinners and prone to error. The Pope freely admits
this himself. You are fool for believing the sick and bigotted propaganda
that your Cult Church promulgates about other faiths.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
You have reading comprehension problems.

Explain this sentence.

'There was dancing in the presence of the parents.'

Does this mean that the parents were dancing? No, it means
that someone other than the parents were dancing.

Now, apply that rule to the following sentence:

'There was rejoicing in the presence of the angels...'

Does thi ...[text shortened]... icing? Again, the answer
is no.

You are being foolish if you maintain otherwise.

Nemesio

Originally posted by Darfius
I'm wondering why you are projecting modern day English on ancient Hebrew.