The Ultimate Riddle

If i am able to wake, then surely my previous state must have been sleeping. It follows then that if i am unconscious then surely i must have been conscious. This cycle of balance is evident in all we perceive. If i am alive then i surely must have been dead. Not the same as not existing because when i die i leave my body and it can be observed deteriorating. So When does my soul deteriorate? Are we not all bound to knowledge of our fore fathers, and merely need to recall that ancient wisdom of ages, or do we progress because what we learn is somewhat encoded in our genes. Either way we advance, become more structured more ethical and less chaotic. Wheres the entropy in this? If the universe is slowly becoming one. when all energy and matter has spent its last, when the space between interactions has become so vast that relativity ceases to exist and time becomes irrelevant because there are no two things to be relative to each other. Surely that is the ultimate structure, One. Just one. The absolute. And yet like a breath it too will have to return to something else.
Thoughts please

Originally posted by NOTGATE
If i am able to wake, then surely my previous state must have been sleeping. It follows then that if i am unconscious then surely i must have been conscious. This cycle of balance is evident in all we perceive. If i am alive then i surely must have been dead. Not the same as not existing because when i die i leave my body and it can be observed deteriorating ...[text shortened]... absolute. And yet like a breath it too will have to return to something else.
Thoughts please

I don't know were you get all this nonsense, but I advise you to study the Holy Bible if you seek the truth that leads to eternal life.

HalleluYah !!! Prasie the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!

Originally posted by RJHinds
I don't know were you get all this nonsense, but I advise you to study the Holy Bible if you seek the truth that leads to eternal life.

HalleluYah !!! Prasie the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!

The Holy Bible is a good book and is full of many good ideals and advice on your relationship with the rest of humanity. If you truly study the bible however you will notice that the messages contained within the word of Christ leads you to believe in yourself as part of god, and to go into yourself for answers instead of relying on external sources for direction. The Kingdoms all inside my friend, and this is heaven. Sure returning to the One and the Absolute has been Nirvana but this is the only game in town. I advise that following misinterpretations of a prophet long ago will lead no further into that Nirvana than the next person. Your place in the afterlife is assured my friend regardless of your faith. To assume God will judge you at the gates is a hypocrisy and is seemingly at odds with the Gift of Free Will given to all. However it is an undeniable truth that any harm you bring to another you bring to yourself. We are all of us One after all.

Originally posted by NOTGATE
The Holy Bible is a good book and is full of many good ideals and advice on your relationship with the rest of humanity. If you truly study the bible however you will notice that the messages contained within the word of Christ leads you to believe in yourself as part of god, and to go into yourself for answers instead of relying on external sources for dire ...[text shortened]... truth that any harm you bring to another you bring to yourself. We are all of us One after all.

When you say "believe in yourself as part of god" do you mean the idea that the church of believers act as the body of Christ on earth until He returns? We don't literally believe we are a part of God.

Originally posted by NOTGATE
This cycle of balance is evident in all we perceive.

No, it isn't.

If i am alive then i surely must have been dead.
Obviously untrue.

So When does my soul deteriorate?
What is your soul? Everyone has their own definition, so it is wise to at least give some details before asking questions about it.

Are we not all bound to knowledge of our fore fathers, and merely need to recall that ancient wisdom of ages,
No.

Either way we advance, become more structured more ethical and less chaotic.
Are you sure? I don't think that is necessarily true.

Wheres the entropy in this?
Nowhere, it has nothing to do with it.

If the universe is slowly becoming one.
This makes no sense. How many universe's is it now?

And yet like a breath it too will have to return to something else.
Why will it 'have to'? And if time has become meaningless, then can you even use the word 'return' meaningfully?

Originally posted by RJHinds
When you say "believe in yourself as part of god" do you mean the idea that the church of believers act as the body of Christ on earth until He returns? We don't literally believe we are a part of God.

A truth that we all might agree upon is that there is no creation in existence that does not inherently contain a part of its creator. A banana for example, or even a ham sandwich will embody a part of its creator (yes that's right I'm eating lunch). If then as the bible would state god is triplane then i would believe that we are to be its body, its experiential vessel as it were. Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High

Originally posted by NOTGATE
A truth that we all might agree upon is that there is no creation in existence that does not inherently contain a part of its creator. A banana for example, or even a ham sandwich will embody a part of its creator (yes that's right I'm eating lunch). If then as the bible would state god is triplane then i would believe that we are to be its body, its experie ...[text shortened]... as it were. Psalms 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High

Speaking of humans as being gods is not in the same sense the Holy Spirit is truly God. The judges that judged men were as gods having the power to grant freedom and life as well as take it away. However, they were not as God with all power to grant eternal life or take it away.

Could you give an example of where the cycle of balance is not present?


(If i am alive then i surely must have been dead.
Obviously untrue)
So you have been in existence on earth for ever?

Your right about the soul and i have no details to give. Except there are an overwhelming amount of cases to qualify even as scientific proof that some people have been here before. What bakes my noodle is why no one ever remembers being an alien.

(Are we not all bound to knowledge of our fore fathers, and merely need to recall that ancient wisdom of ages,
No.)
Yeah your probably right, but we do retain genetic information and that was my point

(Either way we advance, become more structured more ethical and less chaotic.
Are you sure? I don't think that is necessarily true)
May i point out the dark ages? And agriculture resulting in civilization and the industrial revolution.

(Wheres the entropy in this?
Nowhere, it has nothing to do with it)
Entropy is one of the fundamental laws of the universe so therefore there is nothing it doesn't have a hand in.

(If the universe is slowly becoming one.
This makes no sense. How many universe's is it now?)
Unknown, however what i meant was the universe loses relativity in the light of true absence of anything.

(And yet like a breath it too will have to return to something else.
Why will it 'have to'? And if time has become meaningless, then can you even use the word 'return' meaningfully?)
Good question, I'm glad you asked. Only if it follows the balance that is evident in everything else. As for time not being present. The big bang came out of nothing and we have evidence that the big bang was a reality. When (sorry, in the event) there was only one object there was no relativity, so therefore no measurement of time.

Originally posted by NOTGATE
Could you give an example of where the cycle of balance is not present?

Just about everywhere. 'The cycle of balance' is little more than a figment of your imagination not an actual property of anything.

So you have been in existence on earth for ever?
No, but nor have I ever been dead.

Your right about the soul and i have no details to give.
Which essentially means we are discussing something undefined about which we can say nothing whatsoever in a meaningful way - or at best we can assume some traditional attribute which can be chopped and changed at will.

Except there are an overwhelming amount of cases to qualify even as scientific proof that some people have been here before.
If something qualifies as scientific proof there would be scientific studies of it surely? Where are they?

Yeah your probably right, but we do retain genetic information and that was my point
Well its not what you said. If you want to make a point, why say something totally different?

May i point out the dark ages?
So you were talking about civilization as a whole and not individuals?

Entropy is one of the fundamental laws of the universe so therefore there is nothing it doesn't have a hand in.
And it only applies to closed systems - yet you were clearly implying that it applies to an open system.

Unknown, however what i meant was the universe loses relativity in the light of true absence of anything.
It still doesn't make it 'one', nor does it mean it is 'many' now.

Good question, I'm glad you asked. Only if it follows the balance that is evident in everything else.
Except no such balance is evident, nor should one apply a rule that works within the universe to the universe as a whole.

Originally posted by NOTGATE
If i am able to wake, then surely my previous state must have been sleeping. It follows then that if i am unconscious then surely i must have been conscious. This cycle of balance is evident in all we perceive. If i am alive then i surely must have been dead. Not the same as not existing because when i die i leave my body and it can be observed deteriorating ...[text shortened]... absolute. And yet like a breath it too will have to return to something else.
Thoughts please

A bunch of non-sequiturs, a trick question [there are no 'souls'], a banal question about entropy that any entry-level physics student can answer, closed out with a large dose of nonsense.

Well, you wanted to know what people thought... 😛

Originally posted by NOTGATE
If i am able to wake, then surely my previous state must have been sleeping. It follows then that if i am unconscious then surely i must have been conscious. This cycle of balance is evident in all we perceive. If i am alive then i surely must have been dead. Not the same as not existing because when i die i leave my body and it can be observed deteriorating ...[text shortened]... absolute. And yet like a breath it too will have to return to something else.
Thoughts please

You probably have the same faith as Dasa, believing in reincarnation and that eating KFC is wrong.

If you want to go in circles, who doesn't say that your life cycle starts by being alive first, and now being dead, surely means you were alive? If there is proof that we're not the only ones in the massive unending universe, where is it?

We are all missing the point that the universe proclaims the glory of God and it is perfect, because if evolution was at all true, live must be on other planets and after all these years surely something must have popped out from the sky.

If the aliens existed or if I was an alien before, surely I am now human because fefore, I was an alien...what is next, being alien again and forgetting I was human?

...Oh.....help me!

Originally posted by Nicksten
You probably have the same faith as Dasa, believing in reincarnation and that eating KFC is wrong.

If you want to go in circles, who doesn't say that your life cycle starts by being alive first, and now being dead, surely means you were alive? If there is proof that we're not the only ones in the massive unending universe, where is it?

We are all miss ...[text shortened]... s an alien...what is next, being alien again and forgetting I was human?

...Oh.....help me!

why do you say something should have popped out of the sky by now? i dont understand.

Originally posted by NOTGATE
If i am able to wake, then surely my previous state must have been sleeping. It follows then that if i am unconscious then surely i must have been conscious. This cycle of balance is evident in all we perceive. If i am alive then i surely must have been dead. Not the same as not existing because when i die i leave my body and it can be observed deteriorating ...[text shortened]... absolute. And yet like a breath it too will have to return to something else.
Thoughts please

If you can write nonsense like this why not start your own religion?

so... i was hoping for an ultimate riddle. where is the ultimate riddle?

Originally posted by NOTGATE
If i am able to wake, then surely my previous state must have been sleeping. It follows then that if i am unconscious then surely i must have been conscious. This cycle of balance is evident in all we perceive. If i am alive then i surely must have been dead. Not the same as not existing because when i die i leave my body and it can be observed deteriorating ...[text shortened]... absolute. And yet like a breath it too will have to return to something else.
Thoughts please

Thank you for your offering.
Some reflections from a Buddhist/Taoist influenced place:

It appears that that which was before the first thing in the causal chain, and that which was beyond the last thing in the causal chain is the same as that which enables the causal chain itself.

It does not appear that any thing or entity or soul can exist unto itself or by itself alone. There is nothing that does not have parts. All this appears to indicate every phenomenon is dependent on other phenomenon and does not manifest apart from the other. In the Taoist path this is called "mutual arising". In the Buddhist path it is referred to as "dependent origination".

Thus we appear unable to say a thing exists (of itself), nor are we able to say that it does not exist, for it is before us. We cannot say it exists and does not exist at the same time.

Where is this "I", this "soul"?
Does not perfection rely on imperfection to define it?
Or balance rely on imbalance in the same manner?

"Cycles" rely on time to define them. Time is a construct of the mind. Space is dependent upon time to define it and vice versa.

From what does consciousness arise? What is before sleeping and waking?

Progress and regress occur. Where does past and future dwell?

Namaste.