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@kevin-eleven saidIn all my posting history I have never once discussed or asked about other peoples lives, whether it be in Christ or out of Christ or whatever. If anyone starts such a conversation I back away from that topic. Neither have I discussed my personal matters.
Your posting history speaks for itself, but let's not get mired in the brambles of pettiness when there is so much else to be appreciated. 😉
Im here to discuss doctrine. When you start a topic I will participate
@rajk999 saidMay the Holy Spirit enlighten you further, but gently, gently.
In all my posting history I have never once discussed or asked about other peoples lives, whether it be in Christ or out of Christ or whatever. If anyone starts such a conversation I back away from that topic. Neither have I discussed my personal matters.
Im here to discuss doctrine. When you start a topic I will participate
@sonship saidThank You. 🙂
The unreconcilable creature would not own a Creator.
Let alone would he desire to call such a One "my Father".
Though divine life is offered it is scorned.
Though forgiveness is offered, it is argued that no forgivness is needed.
Though pardon has been secured, it is trashed and the very THOUGHT of one needing "pardon" is held in contempt.
The unreconcilab ...[text shortened]... s what I think of you o Creator" is met forever with "This is what I think of your sinning" forever.
@rajk999 saidAgreed!
Jesus is correct, Sonship, you, me, Paul or anyone else who preaches contrary to Jesus is wrong. Jesus said good works are required, and necessary for eternal life in the Kingdom of God. Jesus defined what good works were about. He did not leave us to guess what it was.
Even if you outwardly practice what might might be considered to be good works, that is no guarantee of being "saved". It's a whole mind set and way of doing things. A dedication for want of a better phrase.
Matt 7:21-23
1 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works* in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew* you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’
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Your answer is therefore > because the Bible says so <
Yes,
And we should be thankful for revelation, that God has spoken to mankind.
Sometimes we like what is said, sometimes it troubles us.
And He has told us that because of the things made we perceive some ultimate infinitely powerful designing supreme Creator.
Even a deist admits that.
Even Thomas Jefferson who went through the New Testament with scissors cutting out everything miraculous said that it is self evident that we (all men) are endowed by a Creator with thus and such.
On who else's say so do you wish to rely?
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@medullah saidYes indeed. Jesus did identify in that passage things that people do in churches which is not good works - casting out demons, prophesying, or doing miracles. These are nothing, and Paul said exactly the same thing. This is nothing. What is
Agreed!
Even if you outwardly practice what might might be considered to be good works, that is no guarantee of being "saved". It's a whole mind set and way of doing things. A dedication for want of a better phrase.
Matt 7:21-23
1 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who ...[text shortened]... And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew* you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’
something is brotherly love or charity. Again Paul made this point - Charity is greater than faith.
Yet we have many of the sonship type Christian promoting a faith only doctrine which even discourage doing good works and charity [which is the greater thing]. People know what good works are. Many try to get away from it [for whatever reason] and make excuses for not doing it.
Here in this post from Keven Eleven we see this clearly -
Willing and trusting subsidence or relaxation into Christ and allowing the transformation by the Holy Spirit are the foundation. That inner and continuing choice is the primary and central "good work" -- as a side-effect of which other "good works" might follow (let's hope!), including decisions not to do anything or to stay out of a situation when intervention might be the wrong thing to do.
"Good works" in some cases might be the ego-driven activities of busybodies who have not done the foundational work and who are guided only by their own limited perspectives.
Here it is [all this is contrary to what Christ said]
- sit and wait for the Holy Spirit for transformation, that is a good work
- other good works might follow .. MIGHT .. MAYBE.
- discouraging good works by claiming it is ego - driven
- condemning people who try to help by referring to them as busibodies
See how subtle church doctrine is in discouraging people from going out there are being good and doing good. Nothing in that is what Jesus said to do.
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I missed this, but it is pretty good.
Willing and trusting subsidence or relaxation into Christ and allowing the transformation by the Holy Spirit are the foundation. That inner and continuing choice is the primary and central "good work" -- . . .
The rest of it I would consider latter.
Some translations do render "Charity" as love, but the overall picture is to have intense kindness to each other (is that not what love or charity really is?)
I have encountered allegedly Christian sects that don't seem to sell the need for a bible, but I can't see how this works; how can you master a subject without defining it?
Timothy gave a very good insight into the scale of corrupted teachings that could be expected.
2 Tim 4:3
"For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear."
Is this not what is happening when the priesthood makes excuses for going to war and killing people ?
Even Confucius said it was possible to sin against heaven.
Though Confucius didn't speak of God per se (unless I am mistaken) he taught that heaven could be offended, sinned against. I think this indicates he realized a supreme moral authority transcending human beings.
No one is with excuse to not believe in God as an ultimate source of the creation.
@sonship saidWoe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; ..... Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him! Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel. (Isaiah 5:20-24 KJV)
I missed this, but it is pretty good.Willing and trusting subsidence or relaxation into Christ and allowing the transformation by the Holy Spirit are the foundation. That inner and continuing choice is the primary and central "good work" -- . . .
The rest of it I would consider latter.
@rajk999 saidAnd we are definitely seeing that now.
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; ..... Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him! Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because th ...[text shortened]... law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel. (Isaiah 5:20-24 KJV)