Originally posted by duecer
1) Every day we submit to authority by paying taxes, following the rules etc... I think the virtue here is being a cooperative member of society.
2) Refusal to submit to say a military draft, during an illegal and immoral war would be a virtue.
3)Submitting to God (for arguments sake) is an act of faith, and trust that God will guide in a way that is ultima ...[text shortened]... , only because you hope to gain from it, and not out of faith or devotion would not be a virtue.
Your answers to (1) and (2) seem to distinguish between submitting to government because you judge it to be acting justly, and refusing to submit because you judge it to be acting unjustly. In both cases, you make the judgment (let us assume for good reason).
Ought one to submit to God in the absence of being able to reasonably make such a judgment (let alone submit to a God that one sees as unjust)?
Can a just God expect submission from one who finds they cannot (for whatever reasons or limitations) reasonably make such a judgment?*
The reason for these questions is that some people have claimed that God’s justness and righteousness cannot be judged by human understanding, and remain mysterious to us. In fact, it has been claimed that it is arrogant for us to expect to be able to make such a judgment. Therefore, it would seem that we are asked, under such a scenario, to make an absolute submission in ignorance, due to the limitations of human understanding—aside from whatever evidence there may be that would enable us to make such a judgment if we were capable.
This goes to the old argument between those who say that whatever God does must be counted as just simply because God is God, and those who say that God can only be deemed to be just because he acts justly according to human understanding (which is the only understanding we have).
* Let me use the Methodist Quadrilateral, as you have expressed it, to try to specify a bit:
Suppose that a person’s reason and experience (employing them honestly and to the best of their ability, including applying them to scripture and tradition) lead them to conclude either (a) that God is not just, or (b) that they cannot determine whether or not God is just. Under such conditions, could God justly
expect submission from such a person, rewarding the submission and punishing refusal to submit?
I am, of course, side-lining the question of whether or not a supernatural supreme being exists at all.