Originally posted by knightmeisterOne can measure time.
Now, can you touch: gravity, electric fields, light? Do they therefore not exist?TWHITHEAD
The difference between light and time is that light can be touched (you can feel heat from it , be blinded by it, you can say what it's made of -protons- it can be bent and refracted ) Electric fields are the same. Gravity is more interesting because physics ...[text shortened]... different . How would you rationalise time as being more substantive and existent than beauty?
Originally posted by LemonJelloI phrased this clumsily really. What I meant is that it has a substantive quality in that it reacts with atoms (protons, electrons) in a predictable and mathematical way (even though there is much to discover -ref- wave /particle. ) I don't think we have got past first base with time though. Other than to say time just is and we experience it and can conceptualise it.
My point was: you don't really think light is made of protons, do you?
Originally posted by LemonJelloI'm getting my protons and photons mixed up here I'm afraid. !! Correction , light is made up of photons . I've been working too hard! All this mixing of physics and philosophy with Whitey is draining.
My point was: you don't really think light is made of protons, do you?
Having said this , I think the principle remains just as ever, light is constituted of photons and could be said to be more substantial that time which cannot be said to be made of anything as far as I know.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungOne can also measure a mile . Does a mile exist because it can be measured? If I say there is a mile between two trees across a valley , does the mile actually exist or is it the trees and the valley that have the existence instead? Do the trees depend on the mile to exist or the other way round? When we measure time , we measure the motion of objects and the interval between caused events.
One can measure time.
A car passes by a house. We can say a minute has passed but what is the minute? Does it exist as a thing or would it be more accurate to say that the car and the house exist in reality and the minute is just a concept.? If we could get a minute and put it in a test tube would it reveal what it was made of? Quarks , photons? Waves?
Originally posted by knightmeisterOk then answer me this batman... which is more important ..the wheel or the hole in it's middle?
One can also measure a mile . Does a mile exist because it can be measured? If I say there is a mile between two trees across a valley , does the mile actually exist or is it the trees and the valley that have the existence instead? Do the trees depend on the mile to exist or the other way round? When we measure time , we measure the motion of objects ...[text shortened]... a minute and put it in a test tube would it reveal what it was made of? Quarks , photons? Waves?
Originally posted by frogstompThey are both important , but the wheel might be made of wood, metal etc and the hole would probably be filled with air or something else.
Ok then answer me this batman... which is more important ..the wheel or the hole in it's middle?
The question is not one of importance but of existence . At a push I would say that the wheel defines the hole more than the hole defines the wheel. If I measure the wheel at a foot across I certainly wouldn't think a foot exists except at the end of my leg!
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Originally posted by knightmeisterwithout the hole the wheel is useless as a wheel,but the hole would exist without the wheel.
They are both important , but the wheel might be made of wood, metal etc and the hole would probably be filled with air or something else.
The question is not one of importance but of existence . At a push I would say that the wheel defines the hole more than the hole defines the wheel. If I measure the wheel at a foot across I certainly wouldn't think a foot exists except at the end of my leg!
answer me this then,,, which is more useful the glass or the space within it?
Originally posted by frogstompwithout the hole the wheel is useless as a wheel,but the hole would exist without the wheel. FROG STOMP
without the hole the wheel is useless as a wheel,but the hole would exist without the wheel.
answer me this then,,, which is more useful the glass or the space within it?
The hole doesn't exist really , it's just a different a kind of matter called air that is wedged between the wooden (metal etc) rim of the wheel. In any case you could have a solid wheel with an axle rammed in the hole and the hole would be gone. The wheel doesn't exist either really ....but the wood , metal it is made of does.
The glass is more useful because it defines and creates the space within it. But really it's all just air and silicone compounds.
Originally posted by knightmeisterthat's silly,, the space exists by itself.
without the hole the wheel is useless as a wheel,but the hole would exist without the wheel. FROG STOMP
The hole doesn't exist really , it's just a different a kind of matter called air that is wedged between the wooden (metal etc) rim of the wheel. In any case you could have a solid wheel with an axle rammed in the hole and the hole would be gone. ...[text shortened]... efines and creates the space within it. But really it's all just air and silicone compounds.
Originally posted by frogstompIt's not "space" in reality...it's air. It's just as substantial as the wood the wheel is made of. These "things" called 'space' and 'holes' only exist as woolly concepts in your mind. We call them holes because we can't see air as well as we can see wood. These concepts subtley imply that there is nothing there , but there is , it's just a different form of matter.
that's silly,, the space exists by itself.
This may sound pedantic and silly but when you have a debate about S from Nothing you need to be absolutely clear what nothing actually is and get a bit ruthless about it otherwise people (even scientists) start thinking that something really can come form nothing. Science has never created a proven total vaccum of nothing , infact experiments into so called vaccuums show that there may be more there than we ever imagined.
Originally posted by knightmeisterconsidering the air that's in the glass is moving through space and the space stays where it started , your idea is quite faulty.
It's not "space" in reality...it's air. It's just as substantial as the wood the wheel is made of. These "things" called 'space' and 'holes' only exist as woolly concepts in your mind. We call them holes because we can't see air as well as we can see wood. These concepts subtley imply that there is nothing there , but there is , it's just a different ...[text shortened]... ts into so called vaccuums show that there may be more there than we ever imagined.