Originally posted by Bosse de NageUpon your fold, His mani lies.
Frogstomp...the divine image?...when you're ready....
Meanwhile, my servitor shall chant Blake's words (I have better things to do):
A Divine Image
1Cruelty has a human heart
2And jealousy a human face,
3Terror the human form divine,
4And secrecy ...[text shortened]...
19Where Mercy, Love, and Pity dwell
20There God is dwelling too.
A banded knot are you
A twisted field far away
And in conjuction too.
Originally posted by frogstompSorry for the long delay FS. Here goes...
For the time being let's leave creation out of this, as it's a topic that can be easiy sidetracked.
In the matter of divorce do you not see where Christ differs from Moses? And that He says precisely " Moses gave you that......"
Also take into account the Pharisees test was for blasphemy.
now read Matthew 5:17-20 ke ...[text shortened]... me later on about " God's image" that might not be exactly what you think it is.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Not destroy the law? Hmmm.. Does this mean the law might just have some application today?
Fulfill? I'm gonna take this to mean "to perfect its connection and reference, to accomplish every thing shadowed forth in the Mosaic ritual". Any herecy yet?
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Quite self explanatory. Christ's words will always remain...
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Okay. Lets see... Wikipedia here we go...
Pharisee: A member of an ancient Jewish sect that emphasized strict interpretation and observance of the Mosaic law in both its oral and written form.
I completely agree here. Legalism is just as big a pile of um... err... Anyways, I understand Christ to mean that unless we take in, not only the letter, but the spirit and design of the moral and ritual precept, and not merely abide by the ritual of the Mosaic law, we shall not enter the kingdom.
Agree? Disagree? Any thoughts here?
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Originally posted by Halitosegood to a point..there is a reason He chose to change the divorce law and a few selected other ones. and did he not say " Moses gave you that........" Do you think God would compromise on the law "..... because of the hardness of your hearts " ?
Sorry for the long delay FS. Here goes...
[b]Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Not destroy the law? Hmmm.. Does this mean the law might just have some application today?
Fulfill? I'm gonna take this to mean "to perfect its connection and reference, to accomplish eve ...[text shortened]... tual of the Mosaic law, we shall not enter the kingdom.
Agree? Disagree? Any thoughts here?[/b]
Originally posted by frogstompI agree that Moses gave them the divorce certificates, God however requires marriage to be a sacred and permanent institution that can only be absolved by one of the party having commited adultery.
good to a point..there is a reason He chose to change the divorce law and a few selected other ones. and did he not say " Moses gave you that........" Do you think God would compromise on the law "..... because of the hardness of your hearts " ?
Originally posted by HalitoseDeut 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
I agree that Moses gave them the divorce certificates, God however requires marriage to be a sacred and permanent institution that can only be absolved by one of the party having commited adultery.
Read rest of Deuteronomy and then tell me Christ's Father had anything to do with that.
If you can say that it ws, try and reconcile it to the unchanging law that Christ spoke of, or to God's love of mankind.
Originally posted by frogstompSure. Thats why is called the Mosaic Law. Christ came to perfect it and remove all the excess weight that tied it up with legalistic rituals. That is why I don't mind eating pork and don't have to take a stick and dig a hole each time I want to take a dump.
Deut 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
Read rest of Deuteronomy and then tell me Christ's Father had anything to do wi ...[text shortened]... concile it to the unchanging law that Christ spoke of, or to God's love of mankind.
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Originally posted by Halitosesee we have to really diverge on this.
Sure. Thats why is called the Mosaic Law. Christ came to perfect it and remove all the excess weight that tied it up with legalistic rituals. That is why I don't mind eating pork and don't have to take a stick and dig a hole each time I want to take a dump.
Moses was the leader of a nation and those laws were only meant for that nation, the Commandments were a bit different being more of a religious statement.
Christ did sum up the laws in two great commandments didnt he?
an interesting aside is Matt 19:17-19, now I realize 19:20-21 is the better known passages , but consider Matt 25:31-46 which was also his last words to the people.
The Savior's message of salvation being delivered He had no reason to stick around. 3 days later He was crucified and the rest was meant as a sign of His authority.
I do write long winded asides but then , I was on a roll.
Originally posted by frogstompsee we have to really diverge on this.
see we have to really diverge on this.
Moses was the leader of a nation and those laws were only meant for that nation, the Commandments were a bit different being more of a religious statement.
Christ did sum up the laws in two great commandments didnt he?
an interesting aside is Matt 19:17-19, now I realize 19:20-2 ...[text shortened]... n of His authority.
I do write long winded asides but then , I was on a roll.
Moses was the leader of a nation and those laws were only meant for that nation, the Commandments were a bit different being more of a religious statement.
Christ did sum up the laws in two great commandments didnt he?
I more or less agree with you here...
an interesting aside is Matt 19:17-19, now I realize 19:20-21 is the better known passages , but consider Matt 25:31-46 which was also his last words to the people.
The Savior's message of salvation being delivered He had no reason to stick around. 3 days later He was crucified and the rest was meant as a sign of His authority.
Sure. Although I believe in dying He perfomed the other great reason He was on earth for.
I do write long winded asides but then , I was on a roll.
😀🙂
Originally posted by HalitoseI do not think His dying really was meant as a sacrifice for the standard given reason i.e. " died for our sins ", mainly because it makes God look silly.
[b]see we have to really diverge on this.
Moses was the leader of a nation and those laws were only meant for that nation, the Commandments were a bit different being more of a religious statement.
Christ did sum up the laws in two great commandments didnt he?
I more or less agree with you here...
an interesting a ...[text shortened]... h for.
[b]I do write long winded asides but then , I was on a roll.
😀🙂[/b]
After reading the word I found a distinct difference between Christ's and Paul's use of the word "faith" . Paul's being the usage that became standard "belief that is commonly used, while Christ's use was more restricted to miracles ( healing, mountain moving, etc ). following that and what Christ said in Mark 16 about signs leads to my conclusions that :
1) the delivering His message was why he came. : and
2) once it was delivered , It was time to give a sign of authority
2) the resurrection was that sign
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Originally posted by frogstompHow does Jesus's dying for our sins make God look foolish?/silly?
I do not think His dying really was meant as a sacrifice for the standard given reason i.e. " died for our sins ", mainly because it makes God look silly.
After reading the word I found a distinct difference between Christ's and Paul's use of the word "faith" . Paul's being the usage that became standard "belief that ...[text shortened]... as delivered , It was time to give a sign of authority
2) the resurrection was that sign