08 Jul 12
1 edit
Originally posted by AThousandYoungAstute of you to know that. Heard the phrase today in a waiting room, without mention of its author. Still worthy of discussion, don't you think.
That's a Tom Clancy quote. Plagiarist!
In a way it gets at the Pancoast 'learning to let go' observation: "The truth will set you free but first it will piss you off." -M. Pancoast
gb
08 Jul 12
Originally posted by Grampy Bobbyeliminate beliefs from the equation and you're left with the truth and everything else.
[b]There's a difference between fiction and truth.
There's a difference between fiction and truth. Fiction has to make sense. There's what you want to believe, everything else and the truth.
Discuss.
.[/b]
understand that truth is only an interpretation of reality limited by our capabilities and you're left with everything else.
09 Jul 12
Originally posted by VoidSpiritSo you are saying eliminate fiction and truth and you are left with everything else?
eliminate beliefs from the equation and you're left with the truth and everything else.
understand that truth is only an interpretation of reality limited by our capabilities and you're left with everything else.
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09 Jul 12
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyA deep subject, actually. A fact is that which is the case; it is something that is "out there." A truth is a statement which bears some relationship to a specified fact. A falsehood does not bear that relationship. It can be difficult to describe the relationship that makes a statement true or false. Statements are facts in the sense that they are "out there" but they are true or false "in here" in the sense that we believe them to be such. A question is whether there is a certain relationship which is privileged above others in the identification of truths and falsehoods; and if so, what that relationship is.
[b]There's a difference between fiction and truth.
There's a difference between fiction and truth. Fiction has to make sense. There's what you want to believe, everything else and the truth.
Discuss.
.[/b]
09 Jul 12
1 edit
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI don't think Clancy was talking about truth vs falsehoods but rather fiction (as in Novels) vs reality.
You're saying Clancy got it wrong?
In a novel, the bad guy has to have a motive when he does something bad. It has to make sense. In reality, there are lots of people who do things that do not make sense and have no obvious motive. Worse, when we look at politics, in a novel, you have to explain why a country/government/politicians is behaving a certain way, whereas in reality such large complex organization behave in what appears to be a nonsensical fashion and is often counter productive for all concerned.
As for truth, it does at a minimum have to be logically consistent, or the use of the word 'truth' (a logical term) becomes somewhat suspect.
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09 Jul 12
1 edit
Originally posted by Grampy Bobbyhttp://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy
[b]There's a difference between fiction and truth.
There's a difference between fiction and truth. Fiction has to make sense. There's what you want to believe, everything else and the truth.
Discuss.
.[/b]
The difference between reality and fiction? Fiction has to make sense.
Interview on Larry King Live
Attributed variant: The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction has to make sense.
Clancy here expresses an idea evoked in similar statements made by others, all derived from the orignial made by Lord Byron:
Lord Byron: Truth is always strange; stranger than fiction.
Mark Twain : Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities, truth isn't.
G. K. Chesterton: Truth must necessarily be stranger than fiction, for fiction is the creation of the human mind and therefore congenial to it.
Leo Rosten : Truth is stranger than fiction; fiction has to make sense. (attributed)
unquote.
I now think "reality" is a better word in this comparison, and I think "fiction" is meant to refer to a literary genre, not as "falsehood."
Edit: so this thread belongs in General or Culture.
09 Jul 12
Originally posted by JS357Think we're in agreement.
A deep subject, actually. A fact is that which is the case; it is something that is "out there." A truth is a statement which bears some relationship to a specified fact. A falsehood does not bear that relationship. It can be difficult to describe the relationship that makes a statement true or false. Statements are facts in the sense that they are "out there" ...[text shortened]... hers in the identification of truths and falsehoods; and if so, what that relationship is.
09 Jul 12
Originally posted by JS357Great Workmanship. General Forum lacks focus. Debates is an intelligent farce. Culture's dead.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy
The difference between reality and fiction? Fiction has to make sense.
Interview on Larry King Live
Attributed variant: The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction has to make sense.
Clancy here expresses an idea evoked in similar statements made by others, all deriv ...[text shortened]... iterary genre, not as "falsehood."
Edit: so this thread belongs in General or Culture.
09 Jul 12
1 edit
Originally posted by Grampy Bobbyclose. i wouldn't call it truth. it's all about degrees of relative information.
So it's all about degrees of factual and relative truth?
think of it as a giant jigsaw puzzle. you only have a view of what pieces you've put together so far. but it's a bit more complicated than that because there are similar pieces that kind-of fit together but really belong elsewhere. sometimes you have to tear down parts of the picture you have built and try different combinations. all of this is made more complicated because you haven't found all the pieces yet.
once you figure out where all the pieces go and put the last one in place, you've become the archetypical god. only then can you have a claim to truth.