Originally posted by robbie carrobie actually if you noticed, although given your apparent lack of scriptural references i doubt that you did, the question although about Jewish customs is practically irrelevant to the discussion at hand, nope, just another scantily clad attempt to deffer attention away from the real question, that being the apparent contradiction between the teachings ...[text shortened]... er accept the one and reject the other or explain, with reference, why they are not incongruous!
you took something out of context and used it as definitive proof christ thought the people that evolution is evil. did he foresee in the future a time when heathens, heretics and atheists will discover this elaborate scheme to make god look bad? and if he took the time to explain that evolution is wrong, why not throw in a couple of astrophysics theories while at it? why not give a full description of how particles acquire mass so that the LHC wouldn't be turned on and thus ending brutally our civilization and lives?
or is that He, like everyone in the bible try to teach about what should be done to have a morally fulfilling life, not a scientific one? is it possible that he used the example from the Hebrew books, the only one the pharisees, like you, believed and understood, to illustrate a point, that men and women should pay attention whom they marry because they will not be able after that to discard their husbands or wives like a thorn shirt. i for example cannot use big words when i am talking to you, and if i want you not to go sunbathing at Chernobyl ground zero, i will prolly save a lot of time if i find a bible passage saying god doesn't want you at Chernobyl. instead of the godless approach that there might be bad radiation there
Originally posted by Zahlanzi you took something out of context and used it as definitive proof christ thought the people that evolution is evil. did he foresee in the future a time when heathens, heretics and atheists will discover this elaborate scheme to make god look bad? and if he took the time to explain that evolution is wrong, why not throw in a couple of astrophysics theories w ...[text shortened]... want you at Chernobyl. instead of the godless approach that there might be bad radiation there
your complete lack of relevance is nothing short of astounding, you have consistently failed to address any of the issues and from hence forth will be termed Zahlanzi the pansy!
Originally posted by robbie carrobie your complete lack of relevance is nothing short of astounding, you have consistently failed to address any of the issues and from hence forth will be termed Zahlanzi the pansy!
Some people are proceding from a false assumption: that Christianity and evolution are completely contradictory. This is not so--there are many Christian evolutionists.
Originally posted by PinkFloyd Some people are proceding from a false assumption: that Christianity and evolution are completely contradictory. This is not so--there are many Christian evolutionists.
There are many Christian ..... (fill in whatever belief doesn't quite fit yours). The fact that there are so many denominations shows that there are many beliefs that some people believe are compatible with Christianity and others do not. Simply because many people find evolution and Christianity compatible does not make them so. Why not present an argument.
Robbie would probably argue that the Christians you refer to are not Christians.
Originally posted by twhitehead There are many Christian ..... (fill in whatever belief doesn't quite fit yours). The fact that there are so many denominations shows that there are many beliefs that some people believe are compatible with Christianity and others do not. Simply because many people find evolution and Christianity compatible does not make them so. Why not present an argument.
Robbie would probably argue that the Christians you refer to are not Christians.
it is pointless to say that christianity is compatible with evolution. it is like saying that being russian is compatible with being good at chess. at most they don't contradict.
christianity is one thing and evolution is another. they don't go together because they mean different things.
Originally posted by twhitehead There are many Christian ..... (fill in whatever belief doesn't quite fit yours). The fact that there are so many denominations shows that there are many beliefs that some people believe are compatible with Christianity and others do not. Simply because many people find evolution and Christianity compatible does not make them so. Why not present an argument.
Robbie would probably argue that the Christians you refer to are not Christians.
the points made so far are quite good, however the crux of the matter is this, is what Christ taught, (a record of which we have in scripture) compatible with the evolutionary hypothesis? its quite simple! i hold that it is not and provided a reference. Zahlanzi comments that two are quite different in nature, yes that may be so, but it does not really address whether what Christ actually taught nor what the Bible itself states is congruous with the hypothesis, likewise pinkfloyd states that there are many Christians who are also advocates of the evolutionary process, but again this is quite unsatisfactory, for it too does not address the issue of what Christ and the Bible actually teach and whether a distinction can be made.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie the points made so far are quite good, however the crux of the matter is this, is what Christ taught, (a record of which we have in scripture) compatible with the evolutionary hypothesis? its quite simple! i hold that it is not and provided a reference. Zahlanzi comments that two are quite different in nature, yes that may be so, but it does not rea ...[text shortened]... ess the issue of what Christ and the Bible actually teach and whether a distinction can be made.
Does the bible teach us anything about evolution? No? So evolution is wrong...
Does the bible teach us anything about string theory? No? So string theory must be wrong...
At the biblical times there were no knoledge of either evolution nor string theory, therefore we cannot read the bible to see what Jesus though about evolution nor string theory.
Is it not-christian to hold string theory as true? It's a quite stupid question, right. So is the question about it is non-christian to believe in evolution is equally stupid question.
For me it is blasphemy to deny one of the most glorious part of the creation, namely evolution! The devil himself is whispering in creationsts ears.
Originally posted by FabianFnas Does the bible teach us anything about evolution? No? So evolution is wrong...
Does the bible teach us anything about string theory? No? So string theory must be wrong...
At the biblical times there were no knoledge of either evolution nor string theory, therefore we cannot read the bible to see what Jesus though about evolution nor string theory.
Is i us part of the creation, namely evolution! The devil himself is whispering in creationsts ears.
its incredulous, you are missing the entire point my learned friend, its not a case of what the Christ or the Bible does not teach, but what it actually does! and i have consistently shown that he endorsed the creation account, as found in the book of Genesis, this is what he actually taught, it is quite simple! there are naturally many other references to the actual creation as a divine act, the point that you make is quite irrelevant as to whether these things were known in Christs time or not, for we have what he actually taught at present as well as other Bible writers, therefore its not a stupid question, infact quite the contrary and unless you can provide reference to state anything to the contrary i have no option but to determine that the two are diametrically opposed, nor will I accept that it is possible to reconcile one with the other! Creation as espoused by the Christ and other bible writers is absolutely incongruous with the evolutionary hypothesis, having absolutely nothing in common, nothing!, how you can state anything to the contrary begs belief and defies logic!!
why are you people finding this such a difficult concept to accept?
Originally posted by robbie carrobie its incredulous, you are missing the entire point my learned friend, its not a case of what the Christ or the Bible does not teach, but what it actually does! and i have consistently shown that he endorsed the creation account, as found in the book of Genesis, this is what he actually taught, it is quite simple! there are naturally many other refer ...[text shortened]... belief and defies logic!!
why are you people finding this such a difficult concept to accept?
This is as accurate as yer 12.Ke2 ye leggedy beastiešµ
Originally posted by robbie carrobie its incredulous, you are missing the entire point my learned friend, its not a case of what the Christ or the Bible does not teach, but what it actually does! and i have consistently shown that he endorsed the creation account, as found in the book of Genesis, this is what he actually taught, it is quite simple! there are naturally many other refer ...[text shortened]... belief and defies logic!!
why are you people finding this such a difficult concept to accept?
You are very unclear. You did read my posting, did you?
I still think it's a stupid to think that christians cannot take string theory as true because it's not in the bible. Is it this you object to?
The bible says nothing about evolution, therefore christians, true christians cannot believe in evolution? How could they, when they didn't have the knowledge about it? Stupid? Modern science is again and again showing evolution in work.
Again - if you deny evolution, you deny a very important part of gods creation. Who is wispering in your ears (and ears of other christian fundamentalists) that evolution is wrong?
Why is evolution so hard for fundamentalists to understand?
Originally posted by FabianFnas I still think it's a stupid to think that christians cannot take string theory as true because it's not in the bible. Is it this you object to?
The bible says nothing about evolution, therefore christians, true christians cannot believe in evolution? How could they, when they didn't have the knowledge about it? Stupid? Modern science is again and again showing evolution in work.
For once I will support Robbie. He insists that the Bible does say something about evolution. It provides a clearly incompatible alternative. You may disagree with that claim, but you must show it. Simply repeating that the Bible does not say anything about evolution does not help.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie i never said that he did! what i am saying for the third time is that a contradiction exists between the teaching of Christ and his endorsement of creation and the idea of the evolutionary hypothesis as a plausible account of the diversity of life! unless i have misunderstood, which is also possible, and i ask your forgiveness if this is the case, the original poster stated that there is not!
what i am saying for the third time is that a contradiction exists between the teaching of Christ and his endorsement of creation and the idea of the evolutionary hypothesis as a plausible account of the diversity of life!
Then you are simply begging the question and you have not presented any argument worth taking seriously. If you haven't figured it out by now, the whole contention of the opening post is that the creation story in Genesis is not necessarily incompatible with evolutionary theory (or vice versa). So when you just shriek in response "But Christ said the creation story in Genesis is true! So if you believe Christ here, you must also believe evolution is false!", you are quite simply just begging the question. How can you not see this as question-begging?
In Creation God Calls the World into Existence from Nothingness.
" ................ "
The account begins with the words: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth," that is, the entire visible world. Then, in the description of the individual days, the expression recurs: "God said: Let there be...." Through the power of t ...[text shortened]... p://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/alpha/data/aud19860129en.html
Originally posted by twhitehead For once I will support Robbie. He insists that the Bible does say something about evolution. It provides a clearly incompatible alternative. You may disagree with that claim, but you must show it. Simply repeating that the Bible does not say anything about evolution does not help.
yes, it does say something. but it is taken out of context. the meaning is missed entirely just to express his point.
jesus was giving marriage advice. and he used the sole argument those pharisees could accept. this is what we know for sure. how would it have sounded like "two people shouldn't divorce because man evolved from ape". it doesn't make sense and it forces him to explain the theory of evolution. using time he doesn't have because he must imprint the message of love and fuzzy feelings into the savages.
jesus and the whole bible do not make science. it is not their purpose. science is our thing, to discover knowledge. i will never use the bible for scientific reason and anyone who does it is stupid, ignorant or insane to quote the mighty dawkins.
To all the creationists denying evolution ....
02 Feb '09 08:22
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