1. Standard memberKnightWulfe
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    05 Sep '07 14:23
    I am not Christian. I am Atheist. I have studied many religions and philosophies over the years. Every single one comes down to having faith that what you believe is truth. Believers (of any religion) argue that you must have faith in the belief. Non-believers argue that you cannot believe in something without hardcore proof of it.

    I am not looking to debate, argue or point any fingers. I am genuinely curious what has given you that faith in your belief system. Was their a particular incident? A series of them?

    On the other hand - for those who have never had faith in a supreme being - what brought you to that choice? Was there an incident or series of them?
  2. Standard memberRajk999
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    05 Sep '07 15:03
    Originally posted by KnightWulfe
    ........what has given you that faith in your belief system.
    Indoctrination
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    05 Sep '07 21:57
    Originally posted by KnightWulfe
    I am not Christian. I am Atheist. I have studied many religions and philosophies over the years. Every single one comes down to having faith that what you believe is truth. Believers (of any religion) argue that you must have faith in the belief. Non-believers argue that you cannot believe in something without hardcore proof of it.

    I am not looking to ...[text shortened]... h in a supreme being - what brought you to that choice? Was there an incident or series of them?
    I've tried atheism. It didn't work. Then I found out about Jesus.

    In all the world there is no other being like Jesus.
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    05 Sep '07 21:58
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Indoctrination
    Jesus can unindoctrinate you.
  5. Melbourne, Australia
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    05 Sep '07 23:15
    Originally posted by josephw
    I've tried atheism. It didn't work. Then I found out about Jesus.

    In all the world there is no other being like Jesus.
    Saying you've 'tried' atheism is as ridiculous as saying you've 'tried' christianity.
    These aren't fads that we just jump our way through.
    They are world views, ways of understanding the nature of the world around us.
  6. Standard memberRajk999
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    05 Sep '07 23:55
    Originally posted by amannion
    Saying you've 'tried' atheism is as ridiculous as saying you've 'tried' christianity.
    These aren't fads that we just jump our way through.
    They are world views, ways of understanding the nature of the world around us.
    Seems to me that you are saying once a Christian always a Christian and once an atheist always an atheist. Want to retract ?
  7. Melbourne, Australia
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    06 Sep '07 00:18
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Seems to me that you are saying once a Christian always a Christian and once an atheist always an atheist. Want to retract ?
    Not at all.
    What I'm saying is that anyone who says they 'tried' something like this is full of themselves (or full of something anyway).
    Obviously people change their minds about things, including their beliefs or lack of them.
    But neither atheism or christianity (or any other belief system) is like a pair of shoes that you try on and wear or not.
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    06 Sep '07 00:36
    Originally posted by josephw
    Jesus can unindoctrinate you.
    Exactly. I learned to read at the age of 2 or 3 from the Bible and as a family we read the Bible every night without fail for the next 16 yrs. My parents were Christadelphians who believed that only they were going to get salvation. It took me 20 years (age 18 go 38) to get that out of my system.

    I was indoctrinated by Christadelphioans first and then by Christ.

    It was only after I freed my mind of the stupidity and utter selfishness of organised religion, was I able to truly understand what Christ message was about and it has nothing to do with :

    going to church
    singing and clapping
    dressing up
    how much you give to the church


    Its all about giving to the less fortunate :
    give your time
    give your money
    give your love
    GIVE GIVE GIVE

    Faith is a result of indoctrination
  9. Standard memberRajk999
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    06 Sep '07 00:39
    Originally posted by amannion
    Not at all.
    What I'm saying is that anyone who says they 'tried' something like this is full of themselves (or full of something anyway).
    Obviously people change their minds about things, including their beliefs or lack of them.
    But neither atheism or christianity (or any other belief system) is like a pair of shoes that you try on and wear or not.
    So .. you try something that does not cut it and then you try something else.

    Why are they full of .....
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    06 Sep '07 02:10
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Indoctrination
    You make a good point. We all are indoctrinated. We are either indoctrinated with secular input or religious input or a combination thereof. Also interesting is the Bibles claim that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. In effect, you begin to believe what you are hearing the most no matter what it may be.
  11. Melbourne, Australia
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    06 Sep '07 02:43
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Exactly. I learned to read at the age of 2 or 3 from the Bible and as a family we read the Bible every night without fail for the next 16 yrs. My parents were Christadelphians who believed that only they were going to get salvation. It took me 20 years (age 18 go 38) to get that out of my system.

    I was indoctrinated by Christadelphioans first and then by ...[text shortened]... our time
    give your money
    give your love
    GIVE GIVE GIVE

    Faith is a result of indoctrination
    There's no 'unindoctrination' here.
    You've merely substituted one belief for another. We all do this to one extent or another.
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    06 Sep '07 20:08
    I have faith in Jesus out of fear. I don't love Him most of the time, but frying in Hell doesn't seem to be an option I'm interested in. The God of the Old Testament is so obviously (to me) vile and disgusting, that sending someone to Hell for eternity for disbelief is just the kind of thing that He would do.
  13. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    06 Sep '07 20:36
    Originally posted by gaychessplayer
    I have faith in Jesus out of fear. I don't love Him most of the time, but frying in Hell doesn't seem to be an option I'm interested in. The God of the Old Testament is so obviously (to me) vile and disgusting, that sending someone to Hell for eternity for disbelief is just the kind of thing that He would do.
    Unfortunately, you're still going to Hell. You have to convince yourself all the way down that you love this...thing the Christians worship.
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    07 Sep '07 03:301 edit
    Originally posted by KnightWulfe
    I am not Christian. I am Atheist. I have studied many religions and philosophies over the years. Every single one comes down to having faith that what you believe is truth. Believers (of any religion) argue that you must have faith in the belief. Non-believers argue that you cannot believe in something without hardcore proof of it.

    I am not looking to ...[text shortened]... h in a supreme being - what brought you to that choice? Was there an incident or series of them?
    Unintelligent design. That's right, unintelligent.
    People have this notion that the beautiful, ordered design of the universe gives credence to the existence of a creator. Well, if there were a creator, then he's pretty unimpressive. There ain't nothin intelligent about stars and planets colliding, exploding, and moons expanding and leaving their orbits.
    Have you ever looked at the anatomical make up of a human being? Disgusting plumbing, teeth that don't last, and even totally useless legacy organs.
    Hence, no intelligent creator.
  15. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    07 Sep '07 10:17
    Originally posted by Regicidal
    Unintelligent design. That's right, unintelligent.
    People have this notion that the beautiful, ordered design of the universe gives credence to the existence of a creator. Well, if there were a creator, then he's pretty unimpressive. There ain't nothin intelligent about stars and planets colliding, exploding, and moons expanding and leaving their orbits ...[text shortened]... eth that don't last, and even totally useless legacy organs.
    Hence, no intelligent creator.
    How about designer with average intelligence? Could we be the result of Mediocre Design?
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