1. Territories Unknown
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    29 Sep '10 13:09
    Both Lord Shark and Andrew Hamilton have posited recently that something which logically exists somehow ceases to do so in the absence of an observer. How is such a thing possible?
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    29 Sep '10 13:23
    Could you link to the actual posts so we can have a context?

    Is this reference to the question, "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?", or is it relating to QM?
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    29 Sep '10 14:09
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Both Lord Shark and Andrew Hamilton have posited recently that something which logically exists somehow ceases to do so in the absence of an observer. How is such a thing possible?
    I don't think I have posited that.
  4. Standard memberPhlabibit
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    29 Sep '10 14:191 edit
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Both Lord Shark and Andrew Hamilton have posited recently that something which logically exists somehow ceases to do so in the absence of an observer. How is such a thing possible?
    It's actually true. When the population was low there were very few people either at the beach or studying the glaciers.

    Now they either erode or melt away because someone is ALWAYS there to see the waves crashing on the beach or sunshine beating down on the glaciers.

    It's really basic science, why bother crashing waves and shining light when no humans are there to see it? God has a lot of important things to do, and this is why he needs to send us to war or kill us off with plagues so he can get back to tending his flock and making sure this 6,000 year old planet is safe.

    6,000 years is a long time, Earth doesn't need the wear and tear of things humans see.

    P-
  5. Territories Unknown
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    29 Sep '10 14:22
    Originally posted by Lord Shark
    I don't think I have posited that.
    Something akin to that, over in the "science and God" thread, wherein you posted:

    So you think, for example, that if our solar system outlived any sentient beings, there would still be eight planets orbiting the sun? (Now that Pluto has been downgraded.)

    I take a different philosophical view, I think that in the case that there are no sentient beings then there would be no 'eight' let alone Pi.
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    29 Sep '10 14:28
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Something akin to that, over in the "science and God" thread, wherein you posted:

    So you think, for example, that if our solar system outlived any sentient beings, there would still be eight planets orbiting the sun? (Now that Pluto has been downgraded.)

    I take a different philosophical view, I think that in the case that there are no sentient beings then there would be no 'eight' let alone Pi.
    I think you might have misunderstood that slightly. I'm not saying that whatever exists and causes us to label and enumerate planets will cease to exist upon our demise. I am saying that the labels and enumeration will cease to exist.
  7. Territories Unknown
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    29 Sep '10 14:43
    Originally posted by Lord Shark
    I think you might have misunderstood that slightly. I'm not saying that whatever exists and causes us to label and enumerate planets will cease to exist upon our demise. I am saying that the labels and enumeration will cease to exist.
    Okay, without the label, what is, for instance, pi?
  8. Territories Unknown
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    29 Sep '10 14:44
    Originally posted by lausey
    Could you link to the actual posts so we can have a context?

    Is this reference to the question, "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?", or is it relating to QM?
    As you quoted.
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    29 Sep '10 15:041 edit
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    As you quoted.
    I think in that case it all depends what you define the sound to be. For example, is it the actual pressure waves coming from the tree after it has fallen? or is it what the brain interprets from the electrical signals after it has been converted by the cochlea?

    If sound is what is purely interpreted by the brain. Does someone who has Tinnitus actually hear sounds?

    If it is the actual pressure waves, then are frequencies outside the audible range of any living thing really a sound? I know you have ultrasonic and subsonic, but if they are sounds, that will mean *any* vibration is a sound.

    I think Lord Shark's point is different though. If people no longer existed to define a sound, then there is effectively no "sound".
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    29 Sep '10 15:18
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Okay, without the label, what is, for instance, pi?
    Pi is a mathematical entity. If there were no mathematics, there would be no Pi.
  11. Territories Unknown
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    29 Sep '10 15:18
    Originally posted by lausey
    I think in that case it all depends what you define the sound to be. For example, is it the actual pressure waves coming from the tree after it has fallen? or is it what the brain interprets from the electrical signals after it has been converted by the cochlea?

    If sound is what is purely interpreted by the brain. Does someone who has Tinnitus actually hea ...[text shortened]... though. If people no longer existed to define a sound, then there is effectively no "sound".
    How would you describe the sensory impact of pi?
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    29 Sep '10 15:29
    Originally posted by lausey
    I think in that case it all depends what you define the sound to be. For example, is it the actual pressure waves coming from the tree after it has fallen? or is it what the brain interprets from the electrical signals after it has been converted by the cochlea?

    If sound is what is purely interpreted by the brain. Does someone who has Tinnitus actually hea ...[text shortened]... though. If people no longer existed to define a sound, then there is effectively no "sound".
    I think Lord Shark's point is different though. If people no longer existed to define a sound, then there is effectively no "sound".
    The label "sound" wouldn't exist but the aspects of the world that cause our models to involve pressure waves would exist without people. Zebras would still be able to hear.

    But I'm making a stlightly different point about the ontology of mathematical objects. Pi, as an abstract artifact of a formal system is not really like sound, which is a label both for physical pressure waves and what we experience on sensing and decoding these (as you pointed out).
  13. Subscriberduecer
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    29 Sep '10 15:45
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    How would you describe the sensory impact of pi?
    I like pumpkin
  14. Territories Unknown
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    30 Sep '10 04:13
    Originally posted by duecer
    I like pumpkin
    Huh?
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    30 Sep '10 05:39
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Huh?
    I can't speak for duecer but what I think he is saying that if it were not for his existence there would be no pumkin pie. At least, not as far as he is concerned.

    Edit: To leave out whipped cream is unconscionable. 😠
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