1. Joined
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    29 May '07 10:13
    Did the disciples believe in trinity?

    Did paul believe in trinity?

    Were the christians in the early two centuries believing in the trinity?

    When did trinity come to life?
    ----------
    I'm not trying to prove anything here, I just want to know if Christians have answers to these questions...

    Regards
  2. Joined
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    29 May '07 10:45
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    Did the disciples believe in trinity?

    Did paul believe in trinity?

    Were the christians in the early two centuries believing in the trinity?

    When did trinity come to life?
    ----------
    I'm not trying to prove anything here, I just want to know if Christians have answers to these questions...

    Regards
    Did the disciples believe in trinity?

    No, because they were Jewish. There is nothing in the Jew testament about the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirits.

    Did paul believe in trinity?

    We can't be sure because of the doubt surrounding the legitimacy of Paul. For example, it is unproven that he wrote Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, and Titus. He was also a Jew. "I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile." Romans 1:16

    Were the christians in the early two centuries believing in the trinity?

    No, the Holy Roman Empire invented the trinity in The Dark Ages.

    When did trinity come to life?

    When the Universe was created by God using the big bang.

    God bless,
  3. Joined
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    29 May '07 11:05
    ++++++++++++++
    Did the disciples believe in trinity?
    ++++++++++++++++


    The original 12 disciples didn't use the term Trinity. That word was not coined until much latter in church history.

    To suggest that the disciples did not believe in the Father and the Son and in the Holy Spirit is rediculous. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is repeatedly mentioned in the book of Acts and in the epistles.

    Jesus taught of the Father,Son, and Holy Spirit and commanded the disciples to baptized people into the singular name (not names).... but name of the Father - Son - Holy Spirit in His final great commission to them (Matthew 28:19,20)

    "Go therefore and disciple all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you all the days until the consummation of the age"

    They eventually obeyed to do so at the cost of thier lives.

    So while they most likely had no term "Trinity" in their vocabulary it is ludicrous to suggest that they did not believe in the divine Father - Son - Holy Spirit.

    +++++++++++++
    Did paul believe in trinity?
    ++++++++++++++++++


    The same as above applies. Paul did not have the term "Trinity" in his vocabulary. This term came about latter in church history.

    It is totally rediculous for anyone to suggest that the Apostle Paul did not believe in the divine Father and Son and Holy Spirit. The matter of Father-Son-Holy Spirit permeates his writings.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++
    Were the christians in the early two centuries believing in the trinity?
    ++++++++++++++++


    Various disputes arose over the nature of God. I think the term Trinity arose as Christian teachers began to react against an onslaught of ideas concerning the Person of Christ. ie. He was not fully God. He was not fully man. etc. etc.

    Arguments over the Person of Christ, I believe, led to the formalizing of certain theological terminology as "Trinity".

    ++++++++++++++++++++
    When did trinity come to life?
    ++++++++++++++


    From eternity. The human language term "Trinity" of course, was created in the early centries of church history.

    The human language term was created. The fact and the reality is from eternity.
  4. Cape Town
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    29 May '07 11:27
    Originally posted by jaywill
    The human language term [b]"Trinity" of course, was created in the early centries of church history.[/b]
    Just to point out that 'Trinity' is English and the word in those days was 'Trias' and the word itself wasn't really 'created' but rather used to convey the concept.
  5. Joined
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    29 May '07 11:281 edit
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    No, because they were Jewish. There is nothing in the Jew testament about the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirits.
    ++++++++++++++++++++


    It is not quite that simple. The Hebrew Scriptures mention the child Who is to be called "Mighty God" and a Son Who is to be called "Eternal Father" in Isaiah 9:6.

    So while I agree that the Jews of the Old Testament were not trinitarians, the word of God mentions the Father and the Son as God. IF you don't believe me then you have to prove that there is more than one "Mighty God". And if there is only one "Mighty God" then how could a born child be called this Mighty God unless this is a prediction of God becoming incarnate.

    And how could a son be given who is to be called Eternal Father?

    Yes, I agree that the Jews were not trinitarians. But the Scripture is inspired by God and though comminicated in Jewish terms it is not bound by Jewish culture.

    Secondly, in the book of Zechariah you have the Lord of hosts sending the Lord of hosts. You have in that book God sending God and God being sent by God. This is a preview or at least a hint of the coming revelation of the Triune God.
  6. Joined
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    29 May '07 15:37
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Just to point out that 'Trinity' is English and the word in those days was 'Trias' and the word itself wasn't really 'created' but rather used to convey the concept.
    That's sounds correct and is a better way to put it.
  7. DonationPawnokeyhole
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    29 May '07 15:411 edit
    Originally posted by jaywill

    This is a preview or at least a hint of the coming revelation of the Triune God.
    Who can three people be one person?
  8. Joined
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    29 May '07 15:513 edits
    On the question of whether Paul believed in the Trinity. Let's see. When Paul spoke of the Three - One God he did so in the way of experience. He did not do so in the way of doctrinal formulas.

    For example here we see Paul speaking of Father - Son - Spirit in the way of the experience and enjoyment of God:

    "But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him. But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you." (Romans 8:9-11)

    I think we should understand the small s spirit to be the human spirit and the capital S Spirit to be the Third Person of the Trinity - the Holy Spirit.

    In this passage Paul uses various titles in an interchangeable way.

    The Spirit of God is the same Person as the Spirit of Christ.
    The Spirit of Christ is the same Person as Christ Himself.
    The Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead is the same Person indwelling them as the Spirit of God - Spirit of Christ - Christ.

    All are said to indwell the believer. The interchangeable usage of Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ, Christ, Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead strongly imply Paul's concept of the Trinity.

    In Romans 8:34 Christ is at the right hand of God interceding for the believers. But in the same chapter in verse 10 Christ is indwelling the believers. This means that Christ is effectively in two places at once. He is at the right hand of God and He is within the believers. This too strongly implies Paul's trinitarian concept.
  9. Joined
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    29 May '07 15:582 edits
    Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
    Who can three people be one person?
    I assume you meant "how" rather than "who".

    That question is TOO difficult for me. I cannot answer it adaquately.

    For 2,000 years minds much smarter than you or I have pondered this paradox. No one can explain it.

    But there is a big but. We can experience God. We can enjoy God. We can receive the Father - Son - Holy Spirit and live by such a God.

    Please do not ask me to explain HOW. That question is too difficult.

    Do you have an easier one ?
  10. Joined
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    29 May '07 22:532 edits
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    Did paul believe in trinity?
    Paul shows the trinity in his theology. For example, in Romans 3:23 Paul says, "For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Compare this to 2 Corinthians 5:21 which says, "For he has made him (Christ) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made righteousness of God in him." So here we see that ALL have sinned but then turns around and says that Christ was sinless. Here we see the distinction of Christ above all others and is not just another mortal human being who is born in his sin nature. He is unique in comparison to ALL others.
  11. Joined
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    29 May '07 22:562 edits
    Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
    Who can three people be one person?
    How can you be body, soul. and spirit yet one person? Are we not made in God's image? If so, it stands to reason God is similar in this fashion.
  12. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    29 May '07 22:57
    Originally posted by whodey
    Paul shows the trinity in his theology. For example, in Romans 3:23 Paul says, "For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Compare this to 2 Corinthians 5:21 which says, "For he has made him (Christ) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made righteousness of God in him." So here we see that ALL have sinned but then turns around ...[text shortened]... mortal human being who is born in his sin nature. He is unique in comparison to ALL others.
    According to the Christian concept of free will, ordinary men can choose never to sin, right? If so, Jesus being sinless doesn't imply anything other than a highly moral character (in a Christian sense).
  13. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    29 May '07 22:57
    Originally posted by whodey
    How can you be body, soul. and spirit yet one person? Are we not made in God's image? If so, it stands to reason God is similar in this fashion.
    What's a soul? What's a spirit?
  14. Joined
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    30 May '07 00:396 edits
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    What's a soul? What's a spirit?
    That is not an easy question. I probably cannot tell what the soul or spirit are precisely. They are immaterial. But I can tell you something about how the Bible says they function.

    There are three realms that the created man has contact with and deals with.

    1.) The physical realm
    2.) The psychological realm
    3.) The spiritual realm

    The physical body allows man to contact the physical world

    The human soul allows man to contact the psychological realm

    The human spirit allows man to contact God in the spiritual realm

    The human soul is the seat of three functions:
    a.) Mind
    b.) Emotion
    3.) Will

    The human spirit is the seat of three functions

    a.) Fellowship
    b.) Conscience
    c.) Intuition


    The human soul and the human spirit are immaterial parts of man's being.
  15. Joined
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    30 May '07 01:123 edits
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    According to the Christian concept of free will, ordinary men can choose never to sin, right? If so, Jesus being sinless doesn't imply anything other than a highly moral character (in a Christian sense).
    Yes and no. Adam had the option not to sin without a sin nature, however, he then chose to sin and then became infected with this sin nature. He then had the compulsion to sin that he did not have before even though he still had the option as before in regards to sinning or not sinning. Christ once made the analogy that once man commits a sin he becomes a slave to that sin. In other words, the sin one commits then turns around binds us and attempts to stifle our free will and inslave us in chains by giving us the compulsion to sin. You might say it is akin to feeding a stray dog. You may do it once via your own free will but it will then come back to the hand that feed it the first time again and again and again. You then will feel compelled to feed the begging dog. Unfortunatly this was passed down from his offsring. After all, Adams offspring are an extension of himself and we inherit a great deal both good and bad from our parents. However, in the case of Christ, Joseph did not "know" Mary and therefore the seed implaned in Mary by God was not "infected" with this sin nature. This is why the virgin birth is such an important teaching within Christian theology.
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