1. SubscriberFMF
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    20 Apr '14 14:09
    Christianity betrays the True Jesus as portrayed in the Quran, and there is no other alternative but to accept the True Jesus. The only Revelation of God that does not degrade Jesus is the Quran. All other Scriptures must be abrogated in favor of the Quran alone. ~ Abdullah Kareem



    This is one of the conclusions reached in an article on "The Pagan Origins of the Cross" which robbie carrobie cited as "evidence" of the crucifix being a "pagan symbol" for Indonesian Christians. (Thread 158883 page 14)

    I am curious. Are there any Christians here on this forum that agree with the thoughts of this theologian?

    Here is the link that robbie carrobie provided:

    http://www.answering-christianity.com/abdullah_smith/cross_pagan_origins.htm

    Thoughts?
  2. Standard memberRJHinds
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    20 Apr '14 15:05
    Originally posted by FMF
    Christianity betrays the True Jesus as portrayed in the Quran, and there is no other alternative but to accept the True Jesus. The only Revelation of God that does not degrade Jesus is the Quran. All other Scriptures must be abrogated in favor of the Quran alone. ~ Abdullah Kareem



    This is one of the conclusions reached in an article on "The ...[text shortened]... ed:

    http://www.answering-christianity.com/abdullah_smith/cross_pagan_origins.htm

    Thoughts?
    It is not clear what Tertullian means, but I suspect He was defending against the claim that Christians venerate or worship wooden crosses. The Muslim writer is putting his spin on it in order to raise Islam above Christianity, just as JWs do today. That's my opinion.
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    20 Apr '14 15:161 edit
    Pagan origins?

    Yes, pagans, specifically the Romans, came up with the cross, so it's roots are indeed pagan.

    Well thought out there robbie. Two thumbs up! 😵
  4. SubscriberFMF
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    21 Apr '14 01:10
    Originally posted by FMF
    This is one of the conclusions reached in an article on "The Pagan Origins of the Cross" which robbie carrobie cited as "evidence" of the crucifix being a "pagan symbol" for Indonesian Christians. (Thread 158883 page 14)
    robbie, you were relying heavily on this theologian [Abdullah Kareem] on another thread and you provided a link to some of his work. Do you have any thoughts on his assertions about what he calls "True Jesus"?
  5. SubscriberFMF
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    21 Apr '14 01:14
    More from the theologian robbie carrobie asked me to look at: Abdullah Kareem quotes scholar Tom Harper: “The divine teacher is called, is tested by the “adversary”, gathers disciples, heals the sick, preaches the Good News about God’s kingdom, finally runs afoul of his bitter enemies, suffers, dies, and is resurrected after three days. This is the total pattern of the sun god in all the ancient dramas”. (The Pagan Christ, p. 145)

    http://www.answering-christianity.com/abdullah_smith/cross_pagan_origins.htm
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    21 Apr '14 01:57
    The true Jesus is not in the Quran. Christ is the Savior of the world. Muslims do not believe this. Even Abraham was given the task to go ahead with sacrificing Isaac. However, Abraham was stopped from going all the way through with killing Isaac.

    We could possibly consider that what Abraham would have done with Isaac is a "type" of what God did with Jesus in a sacrifice for man's sins. However, God raised Jesus from the dead and so eternal life is available according to the bible.
  7. SubscriberFMF
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    21 Apr '14 02:10
    Originally posted by KingOnPoint
    Christ is the Savior of the world.
    Muslims do not believe this.

    Do any of Abdullah Kareem's 'complaints' resonate with you?
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    21 Apr '14 02:22
    Does Abdullah Kareem put faith in Christ as Lord and Savior of his own soul? Does Abdullah Kareem believe as the Jewish people and Gentiles are supposed to believe in Jesus according to the bible?
  9. SubscriberFMF
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    21 Apr '14 02:23
    Originally posted by KingOnPoint
    Does Abdullah Kareem put faith in Christ as Lord and Savior of his own soul? Does Abdullah Kareem believe as the Jewish people and Gentiles are supposed to believe in Jesus according to the bible?
    What I asked was, "Do any of Abdullah Kareem's 'complaints' resonate with you?"
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    21 Apr '14 08:34
    Originally posted by whodey
    Pagan origins?

    Yes, pagans, specifically the Romans, came up with the cross, so it's roots are indeed pagan.

    Well thought out there robbie. Two thumbs up! 😵
    thanks whoders one can always rely on you for some positive Karma
  11. SubscriberFMF
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    21 Apr '14 09:52
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    thanks whoders one can always rely on you for some positive Karma
    Aside from his stuff about the symbolism of the crucifix, do any of Abdullah Kareem's 'complaints' resonate with you? What about Tom Harper, whom he quoted?
  12. SubscriberSuzianne
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    21 Apr '14 10:06
    Originally posted by whodey
    Pagan origins?

    Yes, pagans, specifically the Romans, came up with the cross, so it's roots are indeed pagan.

    Well thought out there robbie. Two thumbs up! 😵
    Exactly. Too bad an entire thread was laid to waste without figuring this one out.
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    21 Apr '14 10:171 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    I am curious. Are there any Christians here on this forum that agree with the thoughts of this theologian?



    Thoughts?
    The man is Muslim, he is not a Christian. I am likely not to believe anything he says about the Christ. He has an agenda, obviously.

    My "thoughts" are that robbie also has an agenda and he has shown he will go to any lengths to support his agenda, even to the point of denying his own "faith". I'm similarly not willing to believe much of what he says about the Christ, either. Most of what he says is a twisted version of what we, as Christians, have faith in. I wouldn't exactly call him atheist, since he seems to believe in "something" (his corporation, most likely), but he has shown that he could comfortably be called "anti-Christian".
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    21 Apr '14 10:31
    Originally posted by FMF
    Aside from his stuff about the symbolism of the crucifix, do any of Abdullah Kareem's 'complaints' resonate with you? What about Tom Harper, whom he quoted?
    no just the stuff about the pagan antiquity of the cross
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    21 Apr '14 10:32
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    The man is Muslim, he is not a Christian. I am likely not to believe anything he says about the Christ. He has an agenda, obviously.

    My "thoughts" are that robbie also has an agenda and he has shown he will go to any lengths to support his agenda, even to the point of denying his own "faith". I'm similarly not willing to believe much of what he says a ...[text shortened]... orporation, most likely), but he has shown that he could comfortably be called "anti-Christian".
    he blasphemes! take him outside the city and stone im!
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