Truth

karoly aczel
Hi there, meditation is also contemplation, i have done a lot of contemplation in my 57yrs on the planet, and it has paid off with a certain amount of realization, to which one cannot get in any book.

This is why i personally have a knowing about things, which has put me a notch or two above the common lay person.

How terrible it must be for those people who think this world is real! they must suffer the consequences of their acceptance of the illusion of the false world they live in.

All the scamming religions of the world would have you beleive, that one must adhere to their ways, to secure salvation and a place in heaven, but actually every one is guarrenteed continuity of life, because we are by nature eternal.

we dont have to strive for immortality, because we already are.

the only descision is, how to spend all that time?....in ignorance or in knowledge, because when one knows that the supreme power of the universe, is conspiring to support you in everyway, you then cease to stress, worry and be conserned in everyway about your self existance.....this is the direct cause of bliss, and their can be no bliss, if your not sure wether you going to heaven or hell.

Actually there is no hell, but there is a heaven, but heaven is not permanent, you have to check out when its time to.

I have been to India 4 times seeking knowledge, but found out many years later that i could have just stayed at home.

This idea that a place is holy, is a scam,.....you make the place holy by your own enlightened consciousness, but when a lot of people who are after enlightment gather at one place, it tends to spiritully charge that place, with a positive energy, and people think it is the place, but its not the place, its them.

From a early age i have questioned what is god, and because of my constant sincere endeavour, i found that a light was turned on within me, and it wasn,t instant, but a gradually increasing awareness of what is real and what is not.

and the 100,s of books helped greatly. hey there,s heaps more cheers steve

steve is vishva

Originally posted by vishvahetu
karoly aczel
Hi there, meditation is also contemplation, i have done a lot of contemplation in my 57yrs on the planet, and it has paid off with a certain amount of realization, to which one cannot get in any book.

This is why i personally have a knowing about things, which has put me a notch or two above the common lay person.

How terrible it must ...[text shortened]... and what is not.

and the 100,s of books helped greatly. hey there,s heaps more cheers steve

Alright. A man after my own heart.
you are like a breath of fresh air, I wish you and your loved ones many happy returns.
My world is greater for having met you, thnx🙂🙂

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Vistesd
I am not suggesting that god is singular supreme being, but i dare not claim he isn,t either, and i have no exact information what god is.

But i do know that there is a supreme intelligence responsable for everything that we see and conceive of.

It,s not that i know what god is, (but i know what god isn,t.) and a human like man hes not, but ...[text shortened]... o its source.

I could go on for hours, but i have not the time at the moment....cheers vishva

Ah, now we’re getting closer: you now sound like a non-dualist (Advaita Vedanta, Taoism, etc.).

Your understanding sounds closer to, for example, Kashmir Shaivism (“There is nothing that is not Shiva” ), wherein the ground of being (Shiva) is deemed to be conscious and intelligent. And the universe as it is, and as it becomes, is the result of Shakti (the power or energy of Shiva), and the forms are formed by vibration (Spanda) of that energy. One of the main differences between Kashmiri Shaivism and Advaita Vedanta is that the former preferences consciousness, saying chit-sat-ananda rather that sat-chit-ananda. It is important to recognize that Shiva, in this system, is not a personal god like that of religious monotheism.

I am more Zen/Taoist, and I do not make that metaphysical step. However, after I went to bed last night, I thought that I might have suggested to you that--rather than some god-being--any intelligence responsible for the complexity and coherence of the universe inheres in the universe itself.* As I say, I personally do not take that metaphysical step--but I now see (if I read you rightly) that that is more in line with what you’re saying.

With regard to the reality of the phenomenal universe: illusion stems from seeing things as separable (rather than mutually arising as part of the same web) and non-transient. But Samsara is Brahman. Form is emptiness only in the sense that it has no independent (groundless), non-transient existence; in this Buddhist understanding, “emptiness” does not mean “nothingness”.

If we are both non-dualists, then whatever differences we have are narrowed substantially.

Cheers. 🙂

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* I use the word “intelligence” here with some trepidation; if that “intelligence” is nothing like what we normally understand by, and associate with, that word, then we are in danger of bewitching ourselves with our own language. As a metaphorical way of speaking, however, I am willing to further explore the question. I’ll at least go back and review my sources on Kashmiri Shaivism…

Dear Vistesd
i myself, am not interested in any ism,s, except for spiritualism, and my spiritualism is subjective to my own experience of god.

if its not my own experience, then it can,t serve me.

So it is hard for lay persons, to accept the paradox that god is a person and not a person at the same time.

i can appreciate this because this is the inconceivable nature of the supreme being.

god is a person to the theists, and not a person to the atheist, but in the middle you have the spiritual people, who are aware of( the all pervading dynamic spiritual energy) of god.

I would rather acknowledge and respect the supreme all pervading existance of god, than to pretend that i have a direct telephone-line to gods personal office, like the christian and muslims think they do.

God does indeed have a personality, and the understanding of that, is only had by very advanced and enlightened persons, which i admit that i am not.

cheers vishva

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Dear Vistesd
i myself, am not interested in any ism,s, except for spiritualism, and my spiritualism is subjective to my own experience of god.

if its not my own experience, then it can,t serve me.

So it is hard for lay persons, to accept the paradox that god is a person and not a person at the same time.

i can appreciate this because this is the ...[text shortened]... y had by very advanced and enlightened persons, which i admit that i am not.

cheers vishva

First, why do you add the word “spiritual” to that “all pervading energy”? What does that word “spiritual” mean? What is it used to refer to? (I would say that I am not interested in “spiritualism” at all--but perhaps I don’t understand how you are using the term.)

Second, once you say that the nature of X is inconceivable, there is nothing more to be said. Nothing at all, absolutely nothing. The use of paradoxical statements is valid to illustrate that inconceivability, as a manner of speaking (as in Zen koans), to point toward (not to describe or explain) the ineffable. (And perhaps that is how you are using paradox.)

Third, you mentioned meditation/contemplation (those two terms are generally reversed in western and eastern usage). The purpose of meditation is to allow the thinking/making-mind to relax, so that one can observe the reality that is prior to all our thinking/conceptualizing with a clear-mind awareness that is prior to all our thinking/conceptualizing. It is, metaphorically, like taking off our colored glasses before looking.

One also observes one’s own thoughts from clear-mind: how they arise and pass through, like clouds across the sky. One then sees that one need not be attached to those thoughts, which are also transient. (I do not mean to imply that there is something wrong with thinking! Thinking is part of the nature of our consciousness, and useful for living, like walking.)

From the Zen point of view, reality is just tathata: just-so, just as it is. Nothing missing, nothing needs to be added. “Spring comes, the grass grows all by itself.”

Fourth, although I personally dislike the word “enlightenment”, it means nothing more than being in that clear-mind. In application to living it is akin to what athletes and sports psychologists call being “in the zone”; it is living in the zone. If one falls out of the zone, one knows how to let oneself back in. There may be masters who have learned to abide always in that zone; I have not (yet).

Finally, non-dualism just means that ultimately there is one Whole: the all-of-all-of-all-of-it, without another. There are “not two”, e.g. the universe and a separate god-being. I am quite happy being a transient being, who exists from, in and of that Whole--to which the elements that make up my individual beingness will return.

Here is a little Zen poem:


How tragic for the single flame to fear
annihilation in the larger fire.


Be well!

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EDIT: Good discussion, by the way. Thanks.

Dear Vistesd

We are all familar with material energy, you know (bricks and mortar & the human body) now spiritual means also spiritual energy, which is symtomatic of consciousness and which is god energy.

God energy and consciousness,are not made of atoms like material energy and spiritual energy is all pervasive to infinity, and material is not.

spirtual energy is intelligent because its god energy, and its this intelligent energy that causes the material energy to oscillate to the correct vibration, to give us the many different elements and stuctures that we perceive in the world.

how is it possible that the heart beats 2 billion times in ones life time. because its the spiritual energy that supplies the non stop force.

200 yrs ago flying in the sky was inconceivable, but it didnt stop a few persons from having discussions about flight, and even making model planes, so whilst being inconceivable, there was much to talk about, as reguard to flying.

The true nature of god is inconceivable, but with our limited observations and the ability to wonder, there is much to think about and talk about.

thousands of years ago, meditation was focusing and contemlpating god within, ones own being, but as it is with new age practices, the technique has developed into staring at the tip of ones nose and quietning the mind for relaxation purposes, to relieve stress of the modern life style, and some students still contemplate god in their meditation, by focusing on the super soul within.

dualism is simply that god and his/her creation are seperate, but in fact it is all one and this is a good example of inconceivability. cheers vishva

Dear Karoly aczel

thanks for your kind words, you must be tuned in to appreciate my comments, thankyou.

This posting site for spirituality, needs a definition of GOD that everyone can agree on.

everyone on this site is talking about god in some way or another, but one person,s idea of god, could be totally different from another person, and this would be anti constuctive.

so i am going to put out another posting to try and resolve this problem, and if you can have some imput , that would help cheers vishva

I would like to speak to you, but I would have to ask for the exception of using the bible. Up to you. thanks,

I would like so speak with you, but I would have to ask that you allow me to use the bible. Up to you. thanks,

Originally posted by settl
I would like so speak with you, but I would have to ask that you allow me to use the bible. Up to you. thanks,

Dear Settl

i would love to hear from you please cheers vishva

I agree with you that God is not a "technically" a male as you and I. God is a spirit. However, the bible always portrays God as being masculine. Have you noticed that whenever angels appeared to man that they were masculine?

Settl
Hullo there, i dont accept the bible as the word of god, it was written by people at the time in 400 AD, who had a political agenda, and the god described in the bible, is a god i would not want to know.

What god has a place called hell, where people burn for eternity, its outragous, and dont you question something like that? cheers vishva

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Settl
Hullo there, i dont accept the bible as the word of god, it was written by people at the time in 400 AD, who had a political agenda, and the god described in the bible, is a god i would not want to know.

What god has a place called hell, where people burn for eternity, its outragous, and dont you question something like that? cheers vishva

God inspired men to write the bible between the years of about 1500 BCE and 98 AD. Not 400 AD. I don't believe in "hell" either. If you look at the original Hebrew word "Sheol" and the Greek "Hades" you will see that Hell is nothing but the common grave of mankind. Have you read the bible before because that's all I know. How can I help you. Scriptures that a burning hell doesn't exist?

Dear Sattl,

i was refering to the new testament, but the teachings in your old testament, give referance to animal sacrifices, rituals, punishment for non believers, and really 6 days to create the world, and surely you dont believe in adam and eve and the serpent.

Then theres noas ark, and jesus raising the dead, and walking on water, and Moses parting the Red Sea.

These so called miracles, are told to the masses of people, to try and astonish them into belief, because without all these events the bible would be very boring reading, so they are nothing but cheap, false facts, to deceive the general public

and there are no angles, this is another cheap trick

you have to ask your self, what is the so called knowledge in the bible that is making your life, and the life of everyone else better? What is that knowledge, tell me now. cheers vishva