1. Joined
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    10 Oct '17 23:33
    To the woman he said,

    “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
    with painful labor you will give birth to children.
    Your desire will be for your husband,
    and he will rule over you.”
    17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

    “Cursed is the ground because of you;
    through painful toil you will eat food from it
    all the days of your life.
    18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
    and you will eat the plants of the field.
    19 By the sweat of your brow
    you will eat your food
    until you return to the ground,
    since from it you were taken;
    for dust you are
    and to dust you will return.”
    20 Adam[c] named his wife Eve,[d] because she would become the mother of all the living.

    21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”


    I think people forget about the tree of life. If Adam had never eaten of the tree of life, he would not live forever.

    Part of Eve's curse was pain in child birth, not child birth.

    Why do people assume Adam and Eve would live forever before eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil?
  2. Joined
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    10 Oct '17 23:42
    Sin brings eternal spiritual death not physical.

    Because sin entered the world all people are doomed to death, not just Adam.

    The tree of life is offered to us through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. It is only through God reaching out to us can any of us escape Adam's death.
  3. Standard membersonship
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    11 Oct '17 06:15
    Originally posted by @eladar
    I think people forget about the tree of life. If Adam had never eaten of the tree of life, he would not live forever.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I don't think the tree of life merely meant an everlasting life.
    I don't think God's eternal purpose is fulfilled simply in the fact of man having an everlasting life.

    God has angels that live everlastingly.
    Can you explain why it would satisfy Him more to another creature who simply lives forever as any of the good angels live forever?

    From our human standpoint it may seem that all we need is to live forever.
    But in light of all that the Bible reveals about God living in man, merely for man to live forever, falls short of the eternal purpose of God. Yet is a blessing for human happiness.

    God already had minions of good angels who live forever.
    Just adding one more creature to do so must not meet His eternal purpose.
    The "tree of life" therefore in the context of the entire Bible must represent something more profound.

    Your point again.

    If Adam had never eaten of the tree of life, he would not live forever.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    But the warning to Adam was not that failure to eat of the tree of life would cause him to DIE. God didn't say -

    "On the day that you do not eat of the tree of life, you will die"

    In fact the only reason given Adam for dying was the eating of the fruit of "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil"

    So I understand it that Adam was created with a very good human life that could have continued forever.

    He was created innocent, neutral, and very good. And the only thing given to him as a warning of a DEATH causing destiny was the eating of "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil". Failure to eat of "the tree of life" did not mean Adam would physically die. If he did not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, I think he would have been a happy everlastingly living blessed man in innocence.

    While that might meet Adam's need for happiness it would not meet God's eternal purpose for man to be united with God as the uncreated eternal divine Person.

    When I read the account very carefully it appears that the two sources were mutually exclusive. When one source was taken the other was closed off. God would not have man mixed with two sources. One source or the other would be his destiny.

    When he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the way to the tree of life was closed to him forever. He would become Satanified. The stage of innocence is now moved away from and the stage if union with Satan, sin and death has become man's source.

    Apart from the salvation of God, the eternal plan for man to be united with God was closed.

    "And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil, and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat and live forever - (4:22)

    So He drove the man out, and at the east of the garden of Eden He placed the cherubim and a flaming sword which turned in every direction to guard the way to the tree of life "(4:24)


    Now that man has been joined to the Devil, Satan, the threefold demand upon man prevents him from coming to be joined to God.

    The cherubim standing for the glory of God.
    The sword standing for the righteousness of God.
    The flame of the sword standing for the holiness of God.

    Adam and his descendants fall short of the glory, righteousness, and holiness of God.
    Without salvation in One Who meets the demand of God's glory, righteousness, and holiness we are excluded from being joined to God for the fulfillment of His eternal purpose.


    Part of Eve's curse was pain in child birth, not child birth.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    That is right.


    Why do people assume Adam and Eve would live forever before eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil?

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I believe that they were created with a very good life that could have lasted forever.
    The divine warning was not about not taking in the tree of life.
    It was about taking in death from eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    This was an act of independence from God. But since this is what happened and the other did not, it may be difficult for me to prove the hypothetical alternative. What happened is what we know best.

    But if God did not want man to be mixed with TWO sources (Genesis 4:22-24), then I think the two trees were mutually exclusive. Taking in one source closed the possibility to taking in the other - the opposite.

    I think that if Adam had taken of the tree of life the result would have been the other source would have been closed off and Satan the Devil would have been destroyed.
  4. Joined
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    11 Oct '17 09:29
    Originally posted by @sonship
    [b]I think people forget about the tree of life. If Adam had never eaten of the tree of life, he would not live forever.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I don't think the tree of life merely meant an everlasting life.
    I don't think God's eternal purpose is fulfille ...[text shortened]... been the other source would have been closed off and Satan the Devil would have been destroyed.[/b]
    I'm just going off what the Bible says when it quotes God. You can believe what you like.

    Vivify assumed Adam was created immortal. This demonstrates otherwise.
  5. Joined
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    11 Oct '17 13:274 edits
    whast is written there. Originally posted by @eladar
    I'm just going off what the Bible says when it quotes God. You can believe what you like.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Good, that you care for what is written.
    What the Bible says in Genesis 2:17 is that on the day Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil he would die. I am also considering exactly what is said in Genesis 2:17.

    Vivify assumed Adam was created immortal. This demonstrates otherwise.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sometimes you have to speak with one person at a time.
    I am not sure if I am speaking for vivify or not.

    This life that Adam had could die obviously.

    The only reason I read that would be a cause of him to die was to disobey and eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That is the only reason given and the only warning about death that God gives.

    - sonship
  6. Standard memberHandyAndy
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    11 Oct '17 15:25
    Originally posted by @gswilm
    [b] I'm just going off what the Bible says when it quotes God. You can believe what you like.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Good, that you care for what is written.
    What the Bible says in Genesis 2:17 is that on the day Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil he would die. I am ...[text shortened]... vil. That is the only reason given and the only warning about death that God gives.

    - sonship[/b]
    Do you have a split personality, gswilm?
  7. Joined
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    11 Oct '17 17:25
    Originally posted by @gswilm
    [b] I'm just going off what the Bible says when it quotes God. You can believe what you like.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Good, that you care for what is written.
    What the Bible says in Genesis 2:17 is that on the day Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil he would die. I am ...[text shortened]... vil. That is the only reason given and the only warning about death that God gives.

    - sonship[/b]
    As I said, there are two deaths.

    If you can't see the Spiritual death, then you don't know the gospel.
  8. Joined
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    11 Oct '17 21:01
    Originally posted by @handyandy
    Do you have a split personality, gswilm?
    i am using relative's PC. I do not like to alter anything in his profile or Google session ID. Unwanted by-products confuse things.

    - sonship (the son of gswilm)
  9. Standard memberHandyAndy
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    12 Oct '17 01:20
    Originally posted by @gswilm
    i am using relative's PC. I do not like to alter anything in his profile or Google session ID. Unwanted by-products confuse things.

    - sonship (the son of gswilm)
    Your father is fortunate to have such a considerate son.
  10. Joined
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    12 Oct '17 05:45
    Originally posted by @eladar
    [b]To the woman he said,

    “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
    with painful labor you will give birth to children.
    Your desire will be for your husband,
    and he will rule over you.”
    17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

    “Curse ...[text shortened]... ssume Adam and Eve would live forever before eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil?
    Seeing as how the trees are not literal real trees with roots and leaves and photosynthesis, your post is a bit moot.
  11. Joined
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    12 Oct '17 10:36
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    Seeing as how the trees are not literal real trees with roots and leaves and photosynthesis, your post is a bit moot.
    Thanks for sharing your beliefs.

    As I said earlier this thread was created to educate those with faulty assumptions concerning a literal view.
  12. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    12 Oct '17 10:53
    Originally posted by @eladar
    Thanks for sharing your beliefs.

    As I said earlier this thread was created to educate those with faulty assumptions concerning a literal view.
    Educate?

    All your posts seem to point to the belief that you have no idea what the word means.
  13. Standard membersonship
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    12 Oct '17 11:211 edit
    Originally posted by @eladar
    As I said, there are two deaths.

    If you can't see the Spiritual death, then you don't know the gospel.
    Thankyou

    And since I am aware of the death of the spirit and the death of the soul and body in the Bible, I think do know something of the gospel.

    Man is a three part being "spirit and soul and body" (1 Thess. 5:23) .
  14. Standard membersonship
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    12 Oct '17 11:24
    Originally posted by @handyandy
    Your father is fortunate to have such a considerate son.
    Thankyou.
  15. Joined
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    12 Oct '17 11:31
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Thankyou

    And since I am aware of the death of the [b]spirit
    and the death of the soul and body in the Bible, I think do know something of the gospel.

    Man is a three part being "spirit and soul and body" (1 Thess. 5:23) .[/b]
    So you try to side step the issue. That is pathetic.

    Admit that by eating the fruit Adam did not incur physical death, but the second death and be done with it.
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