Vedanta

Originally posted by josephw
There are more than just two options.

The question, "Who is one supposed to believe?", is an open question not limited to just the two options you gave, even though the context in which you asked it has to do with Dasa's contradiction of the two choices.

Since there is a contradiction, then a third option is required.

Jesus is the one to believe.

The question is specifically about Dasa's and His Divine Graces' conflicting views on Islam ~ and therefore it's about what Dasa's endorsement means or is worth. Did you even read the conversation before you sprayed your graffiti? 🙂

Originally posted by OdBod
Maybe the third option is Atheism, after all, the huge number of differing beliefs devalues them all.

No amount of options can devalue the truth. Sooner or later one will have to come to terms with the truth no matter how many options he/she may explore.

Besides, atheism isn't an option, it's a choice. The choice is between two options; the truth, or everything else.

Originally posted by FMF
The question is specifically about Dasa's and His Divine Graces' conflicting views on Islam ~ and therefore it's about what Dasa's endorsement means or is worth. Did you even read the conversation before you sprayed your graffiti? 🙂

Yes I read what you and Dasa wrote.

You think "Jesus" is graffiti? You're flinging words all over the place, but you haven't convinced me that Jesus isn't the one to believe. 🙂

Originally posted by josephw
Yes I read what you and Dasa wrote.

You think "Jesus" is graffiti? You're flinging words all over the place, but you haven't convinced me that Jesus isn't the one to believe. 🙂

No one is trying to convince you of anything. You have daubed something off--topic and facetious on this thread and now you're trying to bury it under a layer self-righteousness. 😉

Originally posted by josephw
No amount of options can devalue the truth. Sooner or later one will have to come to terms with the truth no matter how many options he/she may explore.

Besides, atheism isn't an option, it's a choice. The choice is between two options; the truth, or everything else.

I think you have missed the point josephw, I did not use the word TRUTH , I said BELIEFS. This is key as it speaks to the huge disagreement about what constitutes truth. This is why Atheism is a very good option/choice because it can unite people through Humanitarian principles , which does not require the interpretation of the wishes of a third party supernatural entity.

Originally posted by FMF
No one is trying to convince you of anything. You have daubed something off--topic and facetious on this thread and now you're trying to bury it under a layer self-righteousness. 😉

"No one is trying to convince you of anything."

It's a debate. Why? To convince! You're starting to get shrill in your effort to convince me that I'm trying to bury something.

Self-righteous? No more than you FMF. 😕

Originally posted by OdBod
I think you have missed the point josephw, I did not use the word TRUTH , I said BELIEFS. This is key as it speaks to the huge disagreement about what constitutes truth. This is why Atheism is a very good option/choice because it can unite people through Humanitarian principles , which does not require the interpretation of the wishes of a third party supernatural entity.

Humanitarian principles? Based on what? Beliefs or truth?
If it's a belief, then it's only slightly more than an opinion.
If your humanitarian principles are based on truth, then you have something worth believing.

Without God's truth all you have are opinions. It's only your opinion that atheism is a good choice. Why do you cloak humanitarianism with atheism? That's just bs.

Originally posted by josephw
Humanitarian principles? Based on what? Beliefs or truth?
If it's a belief, then it's only slightly more than an opinion.
If your humanitarian principles are based on t ruth, then you have something worth believing.

Without God's truth all you have are opinions. It's only your opinion that atheism is a good choice. Why do you cloak humanitarianism with atheism? That's just bs.

Humanitarian principles are self evident when devising a way of living and growing together. For example not killing each other, helping those in need etc all contribute to social cohesion. You do not need a god to tell you these ideas are good thing for society. Of course my view is a personal opinion, and your view is also personal opinion. Every religion claims to be " the truth" and this has and does result in the most awful conflict. Religions seek to perpetuate themselves irrespective of the consequences because they consider they are the custodians "the truth". An Atheist/Humanitarian approach recognises that there is no absolute truth and that human society is an ongoing dynamic process that requires flexible thinking to achieve its full potential.

Originally posted by OdBod
Humanitarian principles are self evident when devising a way of living and growing together. For example not killing each other, helping those in need etc all contribute to social cohesion. You do not need a god to tell you these ideas are good thing for society. Of course my view is a personal opinion, and your view is also personal opinion. Every religion cl ...[text shortened]... ety is an ongoing dynamic process that requires flexible thinking to achieve its full potential.

Not recognizing that there is absolut truth is a big mistake of the Atheist/Humanitarian approach. 😏

Originally posted by RJHinds
Not recognizing that there is absolut truth is a big mistake of the Atheist/Humanitarian approach. 😏

why?

Originally posted by OdBod
why?

Those that deny absolute truth will reject the following words of Jesus and salvation of the soul.

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

(John 14:6 NASB)

Originally posted by OdBod
Humanitarian principles are self evident when devising a way of living and growing together. For example not killing each other, helping those in need etc all contribute to social cohesion. You do not need a god to tell you these ideas are good thing for society. Of course my view is a personal opinion, and your view is also personal opinion. Every religion cl ...[text shortened]... ety is an ongoing dynamic process that requires flexible thinking to achieve its full potential.

"Humanitarian principles are self evident when devising a way of living and growing together."

Self evident? You have a lot of explaining to do!

"For example not killing each other, helping those in need etc all contribute to social cohesion."

Well, if it's self evident, then why do we need laws, and police to enforce them, and courts to prosecute offenders? Why do we need whole military forces to guard nations against invasion? Why do we need governments at all then if being a Good Samaritan is so self evident?

"You do not need a god to tell you these ideas are good thing for society."

You don't know that! You don't even know where those ideas came from much less how to teach them. Are you going to try and tell me that morality is self evident? Don't look now, but your next door neighbor is sneaking in your back door.

"Of course my view is a personal opinion, and your view is also personal opinion."

I have opinions. Everybody does. Proves nothing.

"Every religion claims to be " the truth" and this has and does result in the most awful conflict."

Claiming to have the truth doesn't cause conflict. The conflict is caused by those who resist the truth.

"Religions seek to perpetuate themselves irrespective of the consequences because they consider they are the custodians "the truth"."

It's not just religions that perpetuate themselves. Every institution created by man does that. How does laying the blaim at the foot of the institutions created by man that seek to insure the so-called "humanitarian principles" that you allege "contribute to social cohesion" contribute to "devising a way of living and growing together"?

It doesn't! You're contradicting yourself.

"An Atheist/Humanitarian approach recognises that there is no absolute truth and that human society is an ongoing dynamic process that requires flexible thinking to achieve its full potential."

You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. You can't claim one thing is true while at the same time saying nothing is true.

Human society, driven by your so-called "humanitarian principles", hasn't achieved what it promises. It's political and sociological claptrap, the same garbage handed down to the masses since the beginning. Indoor plumbing and technology not withstanding man is as morally bankrupted as he ever was. Keep dreaming.

The only hope for the human race is an objective and absolute truth to guide us. That truth is a person. Choose the ideological man centered humanistic and secular way and you will go around and around getting nowhere as always. Or choose personal responsibility and recognize your maker. Only then will you begin to really live the only life there is.

Jesus is the way. All others are impostors. There are two paths. One leads to the grave, the other to eternal life. Reject the truth and the truth will reject you.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Those that deny absolute truth will reject the following words of Jesus and salvation of the soul.

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

(John 14:6 NASB)

As I said, religions seek to preserve themselves . Your biblical quotes seek to silence anyone who might want to question that religion, and of course it works on those who religate an individual's creative thought to unimportance in the presence of divine dogma. I content myself with the fact that your position is fixed and unchanging, the pursuit of knowledge through logic and the scientific method grows and gathers pace, faith based thinking will in the end fade to unimportance. It's a shame that so many must suffer during the transition.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"Humanitarian principles are self evident when devising a way of living and growing together."

Self evident? You have a lot of explaining to do!

"For example not killing each other, helping those in need etc all contribute to social cohesion."

Well, if it's self evident, then why do we need laws, and police to enforce them, and courts ...[text shortened]... e leads to the grave, the other to eternal life. Reject the truth and the truth will reject you.[/b]

Cognitive Dissonance

Originally posted by OdBod
Cognitive Dissonance

You should seek help for that condition.

I recommend Jesus.