1. Donationbuckky
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    18 Jun '05 15:43
    Since Jesus came to earth to be a blood sacrifice so that God could forgive the sinners, was Judas just helping out with the plan ? Someone had to set the thing in action. Really I've wondered many times why the twelve themself did not just kill him in some way to get the thing over with. They could of done it in a more humain way.
  2. Standard membertelerion
    True X X Xian
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    18 Jun '05 17:44
    Originally posted by buckky
    Since Jesus came to earth to be a blood sacrifice so that God could forgive the sinners, was Judas just helping out with the plan ? Someone had to set the thing in action. Really I've wondered many times why the twelve themself did not just kill him in some way to get the thing over with. They could of done it in a more humain way.
    If you believe in predestination, then Judas was just fulfilling what God made him to do. Given that this would send him to hell forever and many others to go to heaven forever, Judas could be the ultimate tragic hero.

    If you believe in free will, then he is a martyr. He deliberately chose to exclude himself from heaven, by offering up to the authorities a man he knew was the son of God. He is the one who really "paid the price so we don't have to."

    As Julia Sweeney put it in her standup show "And God said, 'Ha!'", "Jesus had a really bad weekend for your sins." But Judas, he is going to have a torturous eternity for our sins.

  3. Joined
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    18 Jun '05 19:24
    Originally posted by telerion
    If you believe in predestination, then Judas was just fulfilling what God made him to do. Given that this would send him to hell forever and many others to go to heaven forever, Judas could be the ultimate tragic hero.

    If you believe in free will, then he is a martyr. He deliberately chose to exclude himself from heaven, by offering up to the authori ...[text shortened]... eekend for your sins." But Judas, he is going to have a torturous eternity for our sins.

    I belive that if Judas had gone to the cross and asked for forgiveness he would have obtained mercy.
  4. Standard memberAynat
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    19 Jun '05 00:051 edit
    Someone had to betray Christ. Someone had to set the wheels in motion.

    Judas was a guy who tried to do good but like every other person who has ever lived.....he made mistakes. He betrayed his friend the same way any of us betrays someone who trust us; out of pain, fear, need and confusion.

    Jesus knew that a betrayal was going to occur, perhaps he even understood that a betrayal was necessary to start the final chapter.

    Jesus himself requested forgivenness for Judas and many others when he said:"Father. forgive them for they know not what they do."

    If Jesus were here in my community right now, performing miracles, challenging authorities....I would be aftaid. Especially, if I were one of the 12. I would be deeply afraid. I like this guys ideas, he seems cool but he associating with the the lower levels of society, content with the company ofwackos, prostitutes and other disenfranchised people ( the working poor, AIDS sufferers). Openly loving them, holding and touching, sharing meals with them where ever they are.

    He is challenging those who hold religious and political power by the simple facts of his daily choices. He is attracting attention. I am sitting in the midst of this, I believe in the "cause", I want to help the poor and someone is pouring expensive ointments on him when we have hungry people to feed, sick people to care for?

    Maybe I am afraid, or jealous, or angry at the wasted money and and public reproof or confused by the constant refrences to betrayal?

    Maybe, I get the idea that betraying is necessary so that something great can come of it.

    Maybe, the miracles cause me to believe that he will in some spectacular way save himself and prove himself to the world.

    Whatever was going on in my head and heart.....I make a choice.

    Then, having betrayed my friend whom I love, I see what I have set in motion and am struck by a despair so profound that I kill myself.

    If I am honest....Oh, yeah. I could betray Jesus...in a heartbeat.

    In fact, if I am honest...I am Judas. I know far more than Judas did. I have the advantages of religious tradition, a faith and a trust in this aspect of God.....yet, I betray.

    Judas was no better than me and unfortunately no worse. Judas and I are human, struggling to make sense of the life we lead, trying to do good and manage our internal turmoil and failing sometimes while succeeding at others. Judas recognized who Christ was while the others were blind until the resurrection.

    In some traditions, Judas is respected and honored. I worshipped in a church that had 13 stained glass windows. One for each of the 12 Apostles and Judas. Who was depicted with one hand upraised in blessing, a stigmata on that hand. The other held 3 silver coins, a small pouch at his feet spilled forth more silver coins. He wore a square halo which was red. The red was for his blood not that of Jesus.
  5. England
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    20 Jun '05 12:32
    there is a passage in john at the end that the deciples of christ ask what is to become of this man, he answers what is it to you if this man remains till i come, then they wouder if this man will not die, deeming him to live until the time jesus returns, tho many belive this was john but others read it as judas who tryed to commit suicide by hanging and cutting of his stomach. that being his punishment as a text does state that the man who strikes the christ will not see deathand historialy they put this down to the centurian at the flogging.
  6. Standard memberColetti
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    20 Jun '05 13:24
    Originally posted by telerion
    ...As Julia Sweeney put it in her standup show "And God said, 'Ha!'", "Jesus had a really bad weekend for your sins." But Judas, he is going to have a torturous eternity for our sins.

    There but by the grace of God goes you and I.
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