1. Joined
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    21 Mar '09 02:45
    Originally posted by LemonJello
    You habitually fail to understand the distinction between supporting a normative claim and supporting a descriptive claim. I don't care how many cultures throughout history you can point to that have, as a matter of descriptive fact, exhibited your god vs. devil mentality. That point really has nothing to do with supporting a normative claim that such b ...[text shortened]... aracteristically conducive; or necessary; or whatnot; for their psychological "well being".
    I see what your saying. I would suppose I am focusing on a descriptive claim. I would just add that I think the descriptive claim gives SOME credence to the normative claim.
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    21 Mar '09 02:471 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Of course I think the world could be a better place and there is a whole host of things that I think could be better. I suspect I misunderstood your initial post, but after further reading it makes less and less sense.
    There are many things I don't like or think are bad and many things I like and think are good and both come in varying degrees. But I don g is necessary for my psychological well being. Am I misunderstanding you, or going mad?
    I am not saying that you think in terms of "God" or "devil". I am saying that other things take their place to varying degrees. We need a "God"/"Devil" way of thinking in order to better understand and make sense of what is "wrong"/"right" with the world.
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    21 Mar '09 02:521 edit
    Originally posted by scherzo
    You speak only of Abrahamic faiths: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, and to some extent Baha'i'ism. Other faiths (ie the Vedic faiths or Taoism) do not have these concepts.
    Sure they do. They may not use the terms "God" or "devil" but all religions point to and attempt to explain what makes the world "right" or "wrong". For example, if I thought that "right"/"wrong" were merely illusions and there was no right or wrong, then the "devil" would be feeding into the illusions that "right" and "wrong" actually exist.
  4. At the Revolution
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    21 Mar '09 19:47
    Originally posted by whodey
    Sure they do. They may not use the terms "God" or "devil" but all religions point to and attempt to explain what makes the world "right" or "wrong". For example, if I thought that "right"/"wrong" were merely illusions and there was no right or wrong, then the "devil" would be feeding into the illusions that "right" and "wrong" actually exist.
    But "God" and "Devil" are not necessarily entities in certain religions.
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    22 Mar '09 01:192 edits
    Originally posted by scherzo
    But "God" and "Devil" are not necessarily entities in certain religions.
    True, but that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that we all identify with what is "good"/"bad" in the world. Those of the Abrahamic faiths would associate "goodness" with God and "badness" with the Devil etc. However, someone not accustomed to those terms would replace them with other terms.
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    22 Mar '09 02:49
    Originally posted by scherzo
    But "God" and "Devil" are not necessarily entities in certain religions.
    Yes, thank God for Buddhism
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    22 Mar '09 04:121 edit
    Originally posted by clearlight
    Yes, thank God for Buddhism
    Don't you mean thank Buddha for Buddhism? We must not refer to the diety that interferes with our "enlightenment".
  8. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    22 Mar '09 06:22
    Originally posted by whodey
    I don't mean to say that objectivity is an illusion, rather, it is an illusion to think that we ever obtain it in its entirety.

    Although it is possible to see other points of view, your own beliefs remain until that magical period where they are altered for one reason or another. Despite what beliefs you may have, assuming they are all "correct" are vision of reality still remains skewed.
    We cannot be perfect; we can only strive to do the best we can.

    I'm not sure what you think this has to do with a need for god/devil concepts, though.
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    22 Mar '09 06:29
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    We cannot be perfect; we can only strive to do the best we can.

    I'm not sure what you think this has to do with a need for god/devil concepts, though.
    Who said anything about being perfect? I am only pointing out the way in which we make sense of the reality around us, no matter your belief system.
  10. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    22 Mar '09 20:54
    Originally posted by whodey
    Who said anything about being perfect? I am only pointing out the way in which we make sense of the reality around us, no matter your belief system.
    Perfectly objective, or perfectly clear in our view of reality, that is.
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    22 Mar '09 21:49
    Originally posted by whodey
    Don't you mean thank Buddha for Buddhism? We must not refer to the diety that interferes with our "enlightenment".
    It was a joke.
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    23 Mar '09 01:30
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Perfectly objective, or perfectly clear in our view of reality, that is.
    We only get glimpses of what "IS" and never the full picture. That is all I am saying.
  13. Cape Town
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    23 Mar '09 05:22
    Originally posted by whodey
    I am not saying that you think in terms of "God" or "devil". I am saying that other things take their place to varying degrees. We need a "God"/"Devil" way of thinking in order to better understand and make sense of what is "wrong"/"right" with the world.
    I do have a sense of right and wrong but I still don't agree that one can call it a "God"/"Devil" way of thinking.
  14. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    23 Mar '09 06:12
    Originally posted by whodey
    We only get glimpses of what "IS" and never the full picture. That is all I am saying.
    This has been a very productive thread. 😛
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