Western Misconception of Reincarnation

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Probably doesn't qualify as empirical proof, but have read some intriguing accounts of people who recall and evidence past lives. (And I'm excluding the obviously bogus ones of people remembering being Napoleon or Joan of Arc).

Right -- and there are some very compelling cases of this.

If we accept the testimony of the supernatural as it pertains to Christianity, we ought to be inclined to accept other testimony of the supernatural. So I actually do so -- I think there are instances of people with really uncanny recall of other people's lives that defies explanation. Of course, some of this is bogus, but perhaps some of this is true.

Why would it exist...?

Because demons possess knowledge of the past and present that is inaccessible to most humans, and they can provide this information to people for nefarious purposes. "Divination" is even attested to in the Bible as a thing that occurred -- check out Acts 16:16 where they speak of a slave girl possessed by a spirit of divination.

It has to be similar phenomena that is occurring.

Of course, a materialist would completely reject it, but this is in our Bible, and this accounts for the circumstances.

@philokalia said
So, you absolutely refuse to go discuss how evil can be generated through complacency in a thread about St. Dionysius's view of evil, but you are absolutely committed to rambling on about hell & refusing to read a thread about my viewpoints in the thread I created entitled Western Misconceptions of Reincarnation.

I had a look. I don't find it interesting or compelling. I don't have any difficulty understanding "evil". It has been a topic here umpteen times. There is no supernatural element to it. Not being religious is not "evil". I am sure some of the Christians will be drawn to your thread on St. Dionysius.

@philokalia said
Oh well. What can I do. If someone wants to "post as they see fit" and derail my thread while ignoring my thread that deals with the topic, I can't do much.

It's just a side topic, triggered by something you said. Don't worry too much.

@philokalia said
Right -- and there are some very compelling cases of this.

If we accept the testimony of the supernatural as it pertains to Christianity, we ought to be inclined to accept other testimony of the supernatural. So I actually do so -- I think there are instances of people with really uncanny recall of other people's lives that defies explanation. Of course, some of this i ...[text shortened]... alist would completely reject it, but this is in our Bible, and this accounts for the circumstances.

Epiphanies come in many forms. This has been documented for thousands of years. If there is a God or gods who has/have something to say to man, it does not seem at all plausible to me that there would be only one epiphany to one people (e.g. the Jews). It seems much more plausible, to me at least, that the godhead would appear many times to many different people, to all races and cultures, and in whatever form the addressees would be most likely to be able comprehend and relate to, sometimes as a super-human (angel), sometimes as a force of nature (a burning bush or a tower of fire), sometimes as a talking animal (a blue elephant), sometimes in dreams or visions, sometimes as a disembodied voice talking from the sky, or in the form of omens, signs and auguries, or whatever.

So why should not past life memories be accepted as being at least as valid as visions and dreams? They may not have much objective evidence to back them up, but they most certainly influence the lives of the people who experience them. I'd have to say the objective evidence of love is pretty thin, too; you can't measure it on a dynamometer or a spectroscope, but it definitely influences people's lives. And what more 'proof' does anyone need?

@philokalia said
Right -- and there are some very compelling cases of this.

If we accept the testimony of the supernatural as it pertains to Christianity, we ought to be inclined to accept other testimony of the supernatural. So I actually do so -- I think there are instances of people with really uncanny recall of other people's lives that defies explanation. Of course, some of this i ...[text shortened]... alist would completely reject it, but this is in our Bible, and this accounts for the circumstances.

"Because demons possess knowledge of the past and present that is inaccessible to most humans..."

This being the case, how can anything religious be trusted, including scripture itself?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
"Because demons possess knowledge of the past and present that is inaccessible to most humans..."

This being the case, how can anything religious be trusted, including scripture itself?

The argument would be that the miracles of Christ were validating it all, part of which was his casting out of demons, and that the gospels were clear and preserved by the church, who has Saints that have also cast out demons and performed miracles.

What is funny, though, is that demons being deceptive is such a powerful theme that Evagrios the Solitary and many others have talked about not trusting ANY signs or visions or seeking them.

There was an apparition of Mary where a monk spat on her and she immediately howled and was revealed to be a demon.

@moonbus said
Epiphanies come in many forms. This has been documented for thousands of years. If there is a God or gods who has/have something to say to man, it does not seem at all plausible to me that there would be only one epiphany to one people (e.g. the Jews). It seems much more plausible, to me at least, that the godhead would appear many times to many different people, to all races ...[text shortened]... a spectroscope, but it definitely influences people's lives. And what more 'proof' does anyone need?

I would agree that some systems in the world have been influenced by Logos and were great Teachings of men with blessed minds that were holy.

The Persian Emperor Cyrus is referred to as anointed by God in the Bible, so I am sure that there are elements in some other faiths and traditions that were perhaps anointed and guided by God.

But Christ was God incarnate and no other religion has that nor has any other religion blessed the world and spread like Christianity due to it being the grace filled church of God.

The proof is in the pudding, IMO. But I understand how this might not be persuasive.

@moonbus

Epiphanies come in many forms. This has been documented for thousands of years. If there is a God or gods who has/have something to say to man, it does not seem at all plausible to me that there would be only one epiphany to one people (e.g. the Jews). It seems much more plausible, to me at least, that the godhead would appear many times to many different people, to all races and cultures, and in whatever form the addressees would be most likely to be able comprehend and relate to, sometimes as a super-human (angel), sometimes as a force of nature (a burning bush or a tower of fire), sometimes as a talking animal (a blue elephant), sometimes in dreams or visions, sometimes as a disembodied voice talking from the sky, or in the form of omens, signs and auguries, or whatever.

You of course have heard of the Gentile prophet of God, Balaam in Old Testament? You perhaps heard the Midianites had the priest Jethro who ended up becoming Moses's father-in-law.

The priest of the Most High God Melchizedek in Genesis mysteriously appears also speaking to Abraham before the formation of the twelve tribes if Israel.

Job, the oldest book in the Bible, is about a godly non-Israelite man. And the three would be encouragers through his suffering, I don't think were Jewish. They all spoke fluently about God.

Then we also have Paul speaking on Mars Hill about the one true God who all the nations were groping after to discover in the book of Acts.

There seems no question to me that God revealed something of Himself to the Gentiles far and wide throughout history.