What do you have to loose?

@thinkofone said
Jesus was ONE guy. Follow HIM. That's all. The rest is just BS.

You say this, yet over the years you've opposed my efforts to advocate for the gospel preached by Jesus. Have you rethought your position?

Yep... she is a very confused person.

@dj2becker said
For me it’s a no brainer. What are the risks if any of putting your trust in God? People will always let you down, yet we still trust them. We even trust people that we have never seen or met sometimes. What do you have to loose by putting your faith in Jesus rather than in yourself and other people? This question is aimed specifically at non believers.

You really have not thought this one out very well , have you ?

@caissad4

You really have not thought this one out very well , have you ?

If you have it all figured out, then bestow your great wisdom about it on us.

@bigdoggproblem said
Seatbelts, shoelaces, knots, pent-up frustration, ...

Oh. You meant "lose".

Lots of things.

Years of wasted effort following a spiritual path that did not work for me.
Looking ridiculous in front of people trying to speak to a make-believe person, or speaking in a made-up language as if it were real. [lucky even christian me was careful not to do this around ...[text shortened]... anything is suspect on the face of it. There should always be room for a little doubt. It's healthy.

You make church sound dreadful.

Here we have an institution which has it's adherents give more of their time and money to those in need than those not of faith. Here you have an institution where those who attend church tend to live longer, be happier, and are apart of an institution that has a long history of starting hospitals, schools, and universities, etc. And those who actually attend church regularly even have much lower divorce rates than on average.

And as society drifts away from God and a lack of interest in church, we see the fruits of it, don't we.

@sonship said
@caissad4

You really have not thought this one out very well , have you ?

If you have it all figured out, then bestow your great wisdom about it on us.

Please read previous post concerning Paschals' Wager and try, try, try to comprehend it .
You really have no comprehension of that , do you ?

@whodey said
You make church sound dreadful.

Here we have an institution which has it's adherents give more of their time and money to those in need than those not of faith. Here you have an institution where those who attend church tend to live longer, be happier, and are apart of an institution that has a long history of starting hospitals, schools, and universities, etc. And those ...[text shortened]... as society drifts away from God and a lack of interest in church, we see the fruits of it, don't we.

Church wasn't dreadful. Christianity just wasn't for me.

I think it works well for some people, and not so much for others. By all means, if going to church makes you more moral, more fulfilled, etc., then go there regularly.

Just don't be naive enough to think there is nothing to lose by investing one's time in so doing.

Seeking a spiritual path isn't an easy thing. You have to take the risk of doing things that don't always work out in the end.

@bigdoggproblem said
Church wasn't dreadful. Christianity just wasn't for me.

I think it works well for some people, and not so much for others. By all means, if going to church makes you more moral, more fulfilled, etc., then go there regularly.

Just don't be naive enough to think there is nothing to lose by investing one's time in so doing.

Seeking a spiritual path isn't an easy thing. You have to take the risk of doing things that don't always work out in the end.

I agree that being a Christian is not easy. I will also agree that there is a cost to being a Christian, as there is doing anything else.

But as a Christian, we recognize that investing in spiritual matters reaps eternal profits vs. temporal things that will perish. Either way, you pay a cost for either.

Christ's teaching on building on a solid foundation instead of shifting sand was an attempt to drive this point home.


But at the end of the day we live for what we love. If it is not Christ, you will not be a Christian. Sacrificing for what you love, no matter what or who it is, then becomes acceptable and not burdensome.

-Removed-

There are also verses like "deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow me" which make following sound difficult. How to reconcile the passages? Maybe get help from context? But certainly not make a blanket conclusion based on either one alone.

@thinkofone said
Jesus was ONE guy. Follow HIM. That's all. The rest is just BS.

You say this, yet over the years you've opposed my efforts to advocate for the gospel preached by Jesus. Have you rethought your position?

Of course not.

My position has never wavered.

What you put forward is one half of the gospel of Jesus.

You don't believe he is the Son of God, sent to be propitiation for our sins, and an intercessor with the Father on our behalf.

In fact, it is yet to be seen just what you believe in, because you steadfastly refuse to tell us. This isn't "following Jesus". Advocating action over belief is fine, but you still must 'believe'. So far, no one has seen any evidence of your belief.

@rajk999 said
Yep... she is a very confused person.

I'm not the confused one in this conversation.

Why is it that EVERY single religious conversation in this forum is full of hypocrites?

@whodey said
You make church sound dreadful.

Here we have an institution which has it's adherents give more of their time and money to those in need than those not of faith. Here you have an institution where those who attend church tend to live longer, be happier, and are apart of an institution that has a long history of starting hospitals, schools, and universities, etc. And those ...[text shortened]... as society drifts away from God and a lack of interest in church, we see the fruits of it, don't we.

Many churches are full of liars and hypocrites.

Have the Epistles taught you nothing?

-Removed-

Just wanted to go on record for thumbing this post up.

I agree totally.

@suzianne said
Of course not.

My position has never wavered.

What you put forward is one half of the gospel of Jesus.

You don't believe he is the Son of God, sent to be propitiation for our sins, and an intercessor with the Father on our behalf.

In fact, it is yet to be seen just what you believe in, because you steadfastly refuse to tell us. This isn't "following Jesus". Adv ...[text shortened]... belief is fine, but you still must 'believe'. So far, no one has seen any evidence of your belief.

Okay. Then you don't actually think the following is true:
"Jesus was ONE guy. Follow HIM. That's all. The rest is just BS."

Advocating action over belief is fine, but you still must 'believe'.

Of course belief in Him is required. When Jesus was preaching His gospel He used the terms "believe Him" and "believe in Him" essentially in three different ways:  
1) Believe that He has the authority to speak the word of God  
2) Believe that His words are the word of God  
3) Believe His words in and of themselves.  
That's it. Jesus did NOT use them to mean to believe that He was "sent to be propitiation for our sins" or what have you. 

That "believe in" Him equates to believing in "His commandment", "the things [He] speak[s], "[His] sayings", "the word[s] [He] spoke" cannot be laid out much more straightforwardly than the following:  

John 12  
46 “I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness.  
50 “I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”  
48 “He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.  

What you put forward is one half of the gospel of Jesus.

What I put forward is the gospel preached by Jesus. I do not put forward the "gospel ABOUT Jesus". Jesus did not put forward the "gospel about Jesus".

@thinkofone said
Okay. Then you don't actually think the following is true:
"Jesus was ONE guy. Follow HIM. That's all. The rest is just BS."

Advocating action over belief is fine, but you still must 'believe'.

Of course belief in Him is required. When Jesus was preaching His gospel He used the terms "believe Him" and "believe in Him" essentially in three different ways:   ...[text shortened]... I do not put forward the "gospel ABOUT Jesus". Jesus did not put forward the "gospel about Jesus".

No, I disagree (yeah, obviously).

When he set forth the two commandments that were most important, the very FIRST (here meaning most important, not numerically) one was to love the Lord your God, with mind, heart, soul, and strength. You can not "follow the gospel" without "loving God" to the utmost, and to say that one can is ridiculous folly. And, of course, to love God is also to believe him and believe in him, and in the Son he sent - to us, and for us. You cannot "believe" Jesus or even "follow his gospel" without loving God, and before one loves God, one must believe him and believe IN him. And the words he gave us before he sent his son to earth for the world he "so loved".

As for the rest, which you call "the gospel ABOUT Jesus", you ignore the word of God concerning his son and his purpose on earth. You say that there is no "gospel about Jesus", that the Christian churches have made this up. If there is ONE book in the Bible that would call itself "the gospel about Jesus", it would be Isaiah. I invite you to go have a read. And then come tell me that all of us Christians who know why the Father sent his son to bridge the divide between God and man are wrong. IF you can.