Originally posted by Darfius Well, it wouldn't matter what you thought then, because all you'd be was a mindless, loving, respectful robot. Would that be better?
By the way, I would say He's more of an indirect cause than direct. Suffering is a result of a LACK of God.
Phew.. This thread is getting a little crowded, i'm finding it hard to keep up :p
If we all didn't know any better and had complete free will except for the fact that we were born with an instinct to automatically love and respect all life i don't see how the world would be any worse than it is now.. In fact it would probably be paradise.
This would certainly not make us mindless or a robot just because we respect each other. How would introducing evil thoughts/hate into a world like this help Gods cause?
Originally posted by dk3nny Phew.. This thread is getting a little crowded, i'm finding it hard to keep up :p
If we all didn't know any better and had complete free will except for the fact that we were born with an instinct to automatically love and respect all life i don't see how the world would be any worse than it is now.. In fact it would probably be paradise.
This would ...[text shortened]... each other. How would introducing evil thoughts/hate into a world like this help Gods cause?
Complete free will and instincts are contradictory.
Originally posted by Darfius Christians believe we will still have free will in Heaven. However, we will be given the wisdom to make choices that align with God's perfect will.
And we will have earned it.
How about my first question: "When God gave humans free will, did God know what some of the monstrous outcomes would be? Or did he take a risk, and it just didn’t turn out the way God would’ve liked?"
(BTW, I'm not committed to the idea that God is omniscient, or that that is required for "perfection." The Biblical words translated as "perfect" seem to relate more to wholeness.)
Originally posted by eagles54 And you know this.......how?
God suffers alongside those who suffer, because He loves them. He suffers everytime someone makes the final decision to deny Him, because He loves them. He suffered physically in the form of Jesus Christ, because He loves us.
Originally posted by vistesd How about my first question: "When God gave humans free will, did God know what some of the monstrous outcomes would be? Or did he take a risk, and it just didn’t turn out the way God would’ve liked?"
(BTW, I'm not committed to the idea that God is omniscient, or that that is required for "perfection." The Biblical words translated as "perfect" seem to relate more to wholeness.)
He knew. But there is no way to give people free will and yet not have suffering. If there is, I'd like to hear it.
Originally posted by vhouckham WHAT HAS GOD DONE TO YOU?
IF GOD WAS SOOOOOOOO GOOD WHY DO PEOPLE SUFFER! ðŸ˜
The world is now under God's Curse (Genesis 3:17) because of man's rebellion against God's Word.
With our full faith in God's goodness and in Christ's redemption, we can recognize that our present sufferings can be turned to His glory and our good.
"For we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to His purpose" (Romans 8:28).
There is a good article on this on http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t023.html
Originally posted by vistesd But in reply to my first question, you said:
"Christians believe we will still have free will in Heaven. However, we will be given the wisdom to make choices that align with God's perfect will. "
Why could not/would not God have done that in the first place?
I think dk3nny is making a similar point.
I also said "We will have earned it."
If we had all been created that, we would not have earned it. Our love would have been coerced and not true. You have to understand God's motivation before you can understand His work.
Originally posted by Darfius Complete free will and instincts are contradictory.
Sigh.. no they're not, we all have instincts
Well then why was it so important to give us "complete free will" when he knew we'd fcuk it all up.
Why not create a world like i mentioned, with a little built in instinct (like our instinct to learn languages, take our hand off a hot place, the fight or flight instinct etc etc) to love and respect one another? It'd be a nicer place for sure.
I don't really expect you to have an answer but i guess it'll be interesting to hear what you have to say anyway 🙂
Originally posted by eagles54 Two people allegedly misbehave and the rest of humanity for all time is Cursed? Talk about injustice!
Indeed, it would be injustice if He hadn't given us a way to lift the curse. But He did. And His name is Jesus Christ.
3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Originally posted by dk3nny Sigh.. no they're not, we all have instincts
Well then why was it so important to give us "complete free will" when he knew we'd fcuk it all up.
Why not create a world like i mentioned, with a little built in instinct (like our instinct to learn languages, take our hand off a hot place, the fight or flight instinct etc etc) to love and respect one a ...[text shortened]... t you to have an answer but i guess it'll be interesting to hear what you have to say anyway 🙂
Are you making the claim that forced love is true love?
Originally posted by Darfius Are you making the claim that forced love is true love?
So god needs true love yeah? Hes a bit demanding this god eh?
Surely if he was the architect of us he could make us all born with the true love he so craves from us? Let me guess, that wouldn't be good enough for him, he wants us to do it by ourselves using our complete free will.
To be honest the god you portray sounds a bit like hes been in a few too many bad relationships and it pretty unsecure in himself.
Might make for a funny afterlife.. Don't let him catch you cheating whatever u do..
WHAT HAS GOD DONE TO YOU
09 Mar '05 16:58
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