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    31 Jan '09 22:454 edits
    A small diversion within the 'Mormon' thread got me thinking about this, and it would be interesting to hear from all factions in this forum: the philsophical, the spiritual, the political (as in sexist) and the logical outcomes. But lets try to avoid just arguing over whether Adam and Eve existed and work through the possbilities of the scenario.

    So Adam and Eve are at the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, the serpent has cast doubt in Eve's mind over the validity of what God meant by "you shall surely die". (And in fact in the physical sense they remained alive to be evicted from the Garden). So Eve's takes some of the fruit and gives some to her husband, who also eats.

    Now what if Adam had refused it - what would have happened next given your interpretation of the Bible and the holistic nature of God? The scenario would move to stage 2 where we have Eve who has sinned and "will surely die", and Adam who remains physically (genetically), spiritually and morally perfect, as he was whan the Lord created him.

    Would Eve be the sole evictee? Would Adam try to interceed for her, being as he was in the image of God?

    Thoughts....?

    EDIT another thought: Adam, in knowing what god would do, ate the fruit in order to be with Eve and not left alone again?
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    31 Jan '09 22:501 edit
    Originally posted by divegeester
    A small diversion within the 'Mormon' thread got me thinking about this, and it would be interesting to hear from all factions in this forum: the philsophical, the spiritual, the political (as in sexist) and the logical outcomes. But lets try to avoid just arguing over whether Adam and Eve existed and work through the possbilities of the scenario.

    So Adam try to interceed for her, being as he was in the image of God?

    Thoughts....?
    It still would be the man's fault. At least, that seems to be the natural order of things from my experiences. 😛
  3. Joined
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    31 Jan '09 22:51
    Originally posted by divegeester
    A small diversion within the 'Mormon' thread got me thinking about this, and it would be interesting to hear from all factions in this forum: the philsophical, the spiritual, the political (as in sexist) and the logical outcomes. But lets try to avoid just arguing over whether Adam and Eve existed and work through the possbilities of the scenario.

    So ...[text shortened]... Adam try to interceed for her, being as he was in the image of God?

    Thoughts....?
    Then the bible would be all wrong. And the destiny of the whold mankind.
    Adam was a hero who sacrifice himself and the humanity in order to fulfill the will of god. Eve was a heroine to offer him the apple.
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    31 Jan '09 22:57
    Originally posted by divegeester
    A small diversion within the 'Mormon' thread got me thinking about this, and it would be interesting to hear from all factions in this forum: the philsophical, the spiritual, the political (as in sexist) and the logical outcomes. But lets try to avoid just arguing over whether Adam and Eve existed and work through the possbilities of the scenario.

    So ...[text shortened]... Adam try to interceed for her, being as he was in the image of God?

    Thoughts....?
    first of all, the passage, Genesis 3:1-7

    Now the serpent proved to be the most cautious of all the wild beasts of the field that Jehovah God had made. So it began to say to the woman: “Is it really so that God said you must not eat from every tree of the garden?” At this the woman said to the serpent: “Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat. But as for eating of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘you must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it that you do not die.’”  At this the serpent said to the woman: “you positively will not die. For God knows that in the very day of YOUR eating from it your eyes are bound to be opened and you are bound to be like God, knowing good and bad.”

    Consequently the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was something to be longed for to the eyes, yes, the tree was desirable to look upon. So she began taking of its fruit and eating it. Afterward she gave some also to her husband when with her and he began eating it. Then the eyes of both of them became opened and they began to realize that they were naked. Hence they sewed fig leaves together and made loin coverings for themselves.

    this phrase in bold, 'the tree was good to look upon, literally translates as, 'the tree looked good for imparting knowledge'. thus the serpent made a direct appeal to the intellect of eve, that in reaching out for moral independence, she would be better off. this was naturally unfounded and God was forced to execute his justice and the pair were expelled.

    What if Adam had not sinned?, well we enter the realms of pure speculation!
  5. Donationrwingett
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    31 Jan '09 23:46
    Originally posted by divegeester
    A small diversion within the 'Mormon' thread got me thinking about this, and it would be interesting to hear from all factions in this forum: the philsophical, the spiritual, the political (as in sexist) and the logical outcomes. But lets try to avoid just arguing over whether Adam and Eve existed and work through the possbilities of the scenario.

    So ...[text shortened]... owing what god would do, ate the fruit in order to be with Eve and not left alone again?
    Perhaps Adam knowingly sacrificed himself to help shoulder Eve's burden. In this interpretation he comes across as far more of a sympathetic character than if he had obeyed God's tyrannical edict and pitilessly condemned Eve. For he so loved her that he sacrificed himself to help shoulder her sin. Who else can we think of in Christian mythology who knowingly sacrificed himself out of love for another?
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    01 Feb '09 00:10
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Perhaps Adam knowingly sacrificed himself to help shoulder Eve's burden. In this interpretation he comes across as far more of a sympathetic character than if he had obeyed God's tyrannical edict and pitilessly condemned Eve. For he so loved her that he sacrificed himself to help shoulder her sin. Who else can we think of in Christian mythology who knowingly sacrificed himself out of love for another?
    God is love!
  7. Standard memberThequ1ck
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    01 Feb '09 07:221 edit
    Love is both a noun and a verb which is why it is so hard to describe.
    It is a very abstract entity.

    That is why it is important when describing love that we recognise what
    it isn't.
    it isn't hate or apathy.

    So if God is everything, how can he also be love?
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    01 Feb '09 07:28
    Originally posted by divegeester
    A small diversion within the 'Mormon' thread got me thinking about this, and it would be interesting to hear from all factions in this forum: the philsophical, the spiritual, the political (as in sexist) and the logical outcomes. But lets try to avoid just arguing over whether Adam and Eve existed and work through the possbilities of the scenario.

    So ...[text shortened]... owing what god would do, ate the fruit in order to be with Eve and not left alone again?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory
  9. Standard memberThequ1ck
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    01 Feb '09 07:53
    God is language
  10. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    01 Feb '09 09:26
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Now what if Adam had refused it - what would have happened next given your interpretation of the Bible and the holistic nature of God?
    Easy - the woman would have nagged and nagged and nagged until Adam gave in and ate it just to shut her up.
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    01 Feb '09 09:33
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Easy - the woman would have nagged and nagged and nagged until Adam gave in and ate it just to shut her up.
    ... as the nagging Delilah did to Simson. That costed his strength, and later his life.
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    02 Feb '09 15:16
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory
    Not sure I understand what you are saying here Conrau?
  13. Joined
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    02 Feb '09 15:17
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    first of all, the passage, Genesis 3:1-7

    Now the serpent proved to be the most cautious of all the wild beasts of the field that Jehovah God had made. So it began to say to the woman: “Is it really so that God said you must not eat from every tree of the garden?” At this the woman said to the serpent: “Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we m ...[text shortened]... were expelled.

    What if Adam had not sinned?, well we enter the realms of pure speculation!
    Of course it is! But it's possibly one of the most interesting "what ifs".
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    02 Feb '09 15:23
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Perhaps Adam knowingly sacrificed himself to help shoulder Eve's burden. In this interpretation he comes across as far more of a sympathetic character than if he had obeyed God's tyrannical edict and pitilessly condemned Eve. For he so loved her that he sacrificed himself to help shoulder her sin. Who else can we think of in Christian mythology who knowingly sacrificed himself out of love for another?
    Yes, the type of christ is a nice observation, i think jesus was refered to as the "last adam" somewhere.

    Adam's motivation is of real interest to me; it talks to a deeper set of values and purpose being played out than just the typical "you've sinned, now go forth and multiply" scenario we see superficially.
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