Originally posted by stoker
the pain not in heaven?
your soul that god created will go your body will not. conscious your soul will be with others in both camps one will be happy and content, the oposite is nashing of teeth and wailing.
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your soul that god created will go your body will not. conscious your soul will be with others in both camps one will be happy and content, the oposite is nashing of teeth and wailing.
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This is not an adaquate concept of salvation in the Bible.
If you say that only the soul of man experiences salvation you undermind the truth of
resurrection and glorification.
Have you noticed that to be preserved
complete involves not just the spirit or the soul but also the body: For example:
"And the God of peace Himself sanctify you wholly, and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thee. 5:23)
Did you notice that the complete sanctification so that it is
"you wholly" involves -
"your spirit and soul and BODY" (my emphasis).
So you should not give the asker the impression that God does not care about man's body but only wants his soul to be in some happy place. Let me reemphasize this with Paul's words about our whole mortal being (including the body) being swallowed up by the divine and eternal life of God:
"For also, we who are in this tabernacle (meaning physical body] ...
, being burdened, in that we do not desire to be unclothed, but clothed upon, that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life." (2 Cor. 5:4)
This passage shows:
1.) To be without a physical body is to be found unclothed (naked) before God. This is not desirable as a permanent state neither by man or by God.
2.) The full salvtion is not that man would be a soul unclothed with a body, but that soul and body would be
"swallowed up by ZOE life". That means within and without man would be satiated and saturated with the eternal Spirit of God - mingling with his personality, saturating his whole being, swallowing him up with the Divine Nature of God Himself.
3.) The apostles do not desire to be unclothed (just an immaterial soul) but clothed upon. That is receiving also a glorified and resurrected body.
This has to do with man's total being - the spirit, the soul, and the body. But also the environment of man, his world, is also a recipient of God's full salvation.
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea is no more." (Rev. 21:1)
You see here John's revelation of the future eternity did not mention only heaven. He saw a new heaven and a
new earth. Any concept of the save having a permanent home in heaven is actually a kind of defeat to man and to God. The battle is not only over heaven. The battle against God's enemy is over the EARTH. You should therefore think of full salvation as including the planet at least.
"Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit THE EARTH" (Matt. 5:5 my emphasis).
"But according to His promise we are expecting new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells" (2 Peter 3:13)
Peter the Apostle is not expecting just heaven. He is expecting new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness reigns. Therefore any stay in heaven cannot be permanent. The war is over the earth. Satan is defeated when God's kingdom encompasses the whole earth as well as heaven - His will is to be
"done on earth as it is in heaven."
I have tried to show you in this post that God's full salvation is exceedingly practical. It invloves:
1. the spirit of man (regeneration)
2. the soul of man (transformation)
3. the body of man (transfiguration)
4. the environment of man (new heavens and new earth of righteousness)
But there is something else. Instead of thinking in terms of God TAKING the saved SOMEWHERE as in a HAPPY PLACE, rather you should think of salvation as God's life growing in man to saturate man to make man united and mingled with God. That is from the inside out.
When a child is born its normal destiny is to develop and grow into adulthood. It is not adaquate the a car come along and simply TAKE the baby to a happy place. It is vital that the human life in the child GROW, develop, mature, conforming the person to adulthood.
In the same way the believer is BORN of God that he or she may GROW with this divine life within. That full salvation is not represented so much as the person being physically transported to a happy place. But rather salvation is the maturing and growth of this joyful life of God which has been planted in the believer.
I this sense what goes to heaven is what has come out of heaven. The natural humanity is impregnated with the life of Christ. He grows, He saturates, He sanctifies, He builds one up with others in love. And this process of growth causes the believers to BECOME the destination - New Jerusalem.
If you can grasp it, it is more of one spiritually
growing INTO heaven than one being transported to heaven. The transporting is secondary to growing. And the transporting is not permanent. But to inherit the new earth and the new heavens in which righteousness dwells is permanent unto eternity.