1. Standard memberJerryH
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    08 Feb '14 22:20
    We are each different physically and fortunately. Are we born with and into enough difference to dictate our difference in choice? If so then where is free will?

    If alternately there is some quality of us, not physical or fortune, that accounts for the choices we make and we choose differently, where is free will?

    Does free will not demand we all make the same prefect choice. Does deviation from perfect choice not suggest flawed will?

    What is left for free will?
  2. SubscriberSuzianne
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    08 Feb '14 22:30
    Originally posted by JerryH
    We are each different physically and fortunately. Are we born with and into enough difference to dictate our difference in choice? If so then where is free will?

    If alternately there is some quality of us, not physical or fortune, that accounts for the choices we make and we choose differently, where is free will?

    Does free will not demand we all make ...[text shortened]... ice. Does deviation from perfect choice not suggest flawed will?

    What is left for free will?
    The rumors of the death of free will have been greatly exaggerated.

    Free will is included in the human experience, just by taking part. You don't have to fill out a rebate form to get it. Your choices belong to you alone. Own them. And your mistakes? Own them, too because that's the only way you can take the steps necessary to fix them.
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    08 Feb '14 22:43
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    The rumors of the death of free will have been greatly exaggerated.

    Free will is included in the human experience, just by taking part. You don't have to fill out a rebate form to get it. Your choices belong to you alone. Own them. And your mistakes? Own them, too because that's the only way you can take the steps necessary to fix them.
    can you explain how the process of freewill works? as far as i can figure it, freewill is impossible.
  4. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    08 Feb '14 23:02
    Originally posted by JerryH
    We are each different physically and fortunately. Are we born with and into enough difference to dictate our difference in choice? If so then where is free will?

    If alternately there is some quality of us, not physical or fortune, that accounts for the choices we make and we choose differently, where is free will?

    Does free will not demand we all make ...[text shortened]... ice. Does deviation from perfect choice not suggest flawed will?

    What is left for free will?
    What do you mean by 'perfect' choice?
  5. SubscriberSuzianne
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    08 Feb '14 23:081 edit
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    can you explain how the process of freewill works? as far as i can figure it, freewill is impossible.
    I don't imagine that you are a slave, without the ability to do what you want. Not sure about you, but when I became an adult I put away childish things, and inherited the ability to make up my own mind.
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    08 Feb '14 23:32
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    I don't imagine that you are a slave, without the ability to do what you want. Not sure about you, but when I became an adult I put away childish things, and inherited the ability to make up my own mind.
    that doesnt remotely begin to explain freewill it just reaffirms your belief that it exists.

    my view (the non existence) of freewill doesnt involve being a slave, as there is nothing to be a slave of. only that we are all part of a chain reaction. we never really have a choice because we are only ever going to choose one option. every decision we make is the result of everything that has happened before us.
    if we could replay a moment in time over and over and it when it comes to the moment of decision making, shall i do a or b. what changes in us to mean that we wont just keep making the same decision?
  7. Standard memberJerryH
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    09 Feb '14 00:44
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    What do you mean by 'perfect' choice?

    If will is not enslaved by differences in being then it seems to follow that with such free will, all when given a choice would choose the same, the 'perfect choice'.

    Two men are given the choice to steal or not. If they both have free will then how can one choose to steal and the other not? If one is goo ...[text shortened]... were they not equivalent? If so then with free will why diverge? If not then how is inequality free?
  8. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    09 Feb '14 01:04
    Originally posted by JerryH
    Oops; you put your reply in the 'quote' box, and it got truncated.

    I will try to respond to the part that was kept, but bear in mind that I may not fully address your argument since I couldn't read all of it.

    "Free will enslaved by differences in being" - I would think it is. There is no 'perfect' choice that is the same for all agents. We do not all have the same experiences, circumstances, character traits, etc. that factor strongly into the choices we make.
  9. Standard memberRJHinds
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    09 Feb '14 01:12
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    that doesnt remotely begin to explain freewill it just reaffirms your belief that it exists.

    my view (the non existence) of freewill doesnt involve being a slave, as there is nothing to be a slave of. only that we are all part of a chain reaction. we never really have a choice because we are only ever going to choose one option. every decision we ma ...[text shortened]... , shall i do a or b. what changes in us to mean that we wont just keep making the same decision?
    You could choose to kill yourself and your choice is death. If you get pregnant, you can choose to get an abortion and you choose death. Women say they believe in pro-choice. Why is that not free will? I don't like those choices and would choose life. That is why I call myself pro-life. That is what I call free-will. You are given the free-will to promote life or death. What are you going to choose?
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    09 Feb '14 01:13
    Originally posted by JerryH
    We are each different physically and fortunately. Are we born with and into enough difference to dictate our difference in choice? If so then where is free will?

    If alternately there is some quality of us, not physical or fortune, that accounts for the choices we make and we choose differently, where is free will?

    Does free will not demand we all make ...[text shortened]... ice. Does deviation from perfect choice not suggest flawed will?

    What is left for free will?
    I suggest you deal with the non-theological aspects before bringing the matter to this forum.
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    09 Feb '14 01:181 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    You could choose to kill yourself and your choice is death. If you get pregnant, you can choose to get an abortion and you choose death. Women say they believe in pro-choice. Why is that not free will? I don't like those choices and would choose life. That is why I call myself pro-life. That is what I call free-will. You are given the free-will to promote life or death. What are you going to choose?
    okay, you are coming in at the wrong point of the though process. of course there is a multitude of possibilities for every situation, an almost unlimited range of possibilities. you need to think about the actual point of decision making. how do we arrive at one decision over another? if we rewound time 5 seconds into the past a billion times, would you keep making exactly the same choices? if not, what has changed?

    (im treating you like a grown up here rj, dont let me down)
  12. Standard memberRJHinds
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    09 Feb '14 01:28
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    okay, you are coming in at the wrong point of the though process. of course there is a multitude of possibilities for every situation, an almost unlimited range of possibilities. you need to think about the actual point of decision making. how do we arrive at one decision over another? if we rewound time 5 seconds into the past a billion times, would yo ...[text shortened]... oices? if not, what has changed?

    (im treating you like a grown up here rj, dont let me down)
    I don't know all the answers. Just because we think differently doesn't necessarily mean that we are all robbed of our free will concerning our actions. That is my opinion and I am not sure I can give you a satisfactory answer. I don't consider myself an expert on free will or on whether everyone has it. I believe I do. However, I guess I can not speak with authority for you. If you don't think you have free will, then I am going to let it go at that.
  13. SubscriberSuzianne
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    09 Feb '14 02:062 edits
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    that doesnt remotely begin to explain freewill it just reaffirms your belief that it exists.

    my view (the non existence) of freewill doesnt involve being a slave, as there is nothing to be a slave of. only that we are all part of a chain reaction. we never really have a choice because we are only ever going to choose one option. every decision we ma ...[text shortened]... , shall i do a or b. what changes in us to mean that we wont just keep making the same decision?
    "All pre-ordained,
    A prisoner in chains,
    A victim of venomous fate.
    Kicked in the face,
    You can't pray for a place
    In heaven's unearthly estate."

    Is this how you see it? Freedom is an illusion?

    That sounds like a coward's excuse for not acting.
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    09 Feb '14 02:15
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    "All pre-ordained,
    A prisoner in chains,
    A victim of venomous fate.
    Kicked in the face,
    You can't pray for a place
    In heaven's unearthly estate."

    Is this how you see it? Freedom is an illusion?
    hey, dont turn it back on me! i was asking you how it works. ive already said that i dont believe in freewill, i cant see how its possible.

    dont you agree that for freewill to exist that running the same situation over and over we must make different decisions on occasions. if we never make different decisions and repeat the same one over and over can this constitute as freewill?
    so first we need to establish, do you think you would make the same decisions if time was repeated over and over (without you knowing)?
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    09 Feb '14 08:17
    Originally posted by stellspalfie
    hey, dont turn it back on me! i was asking you how it works. ive already said that i dont believe in freewill, i cant see how its possible.

    dont you agree that for freewill to exist that running the same situation over and over we must make different decisions on occasions. if we never make different decisions and repeat the same one over and over c ...[text shortened]... hink you would make the same decisions if time was repeated over and over (without you knowing)?
    I suggest that you make every effort to study the Holy Bible starting with the New Testament because it explains the Old Testament. Once you understand the New Testament, I believe you will gain the free will that you don't have now.
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